Expedition Vehicle selection thoughts?
- Thread starter Zybane
- Start date
I agree. One of those Rickson critical wheel failures at highway speed could be your life. At the very least quite expensive.
Ah. I guess E-locker in the front and limited slip in the back would be better than no e-locker. For some reason I thought you could get a locker for the back. Bummer.
Ya they are my #1 prospect so far. I've watched all of their videos. Some thoughts on Earthcruiser FXX:
1. Apparently the prices have increased a bit in the last couple of years. Still my #1 contender.
2. Above, found out no rear lock. Kinda disappointing. I love having f/r lockers on my PowerWagon. Major reason why it is the most capably factory pickup truck on the planet.
3. Engine seems to be very reliable, but low power level may make everyday driving/highway a bit tedious.
4. 12K weight is a plus. About 4-5K lighter than an EarthRoamer type setup.
5. Interior seems to be a bit spartan with limited storage, but I do like white/easy to clean fiberglass interior and the entrance wet bath is a great space saver.
6. This one has me perplexed the most; the six main windows are high up so you can only look out them while standing up. The only windows you can see out of sitting down at the two small dinette windows. I'm not sure how that would fare for a full-time rig, may feel like a cave. You guys think it is for security reasons?
7. Love the short cab style, keeping the vehicle less than 22 feet. Wouldn't feel to crazy actually taking this into a city etc.
8. If the windows were lower on the FX like on the EXP and there was a rear locker, I'd probably have already sent in a deposit.
This will be a long term retirement/travel vehicle, so a certain level of comfort must be met. As for water, I currently have 55 gal in my Airstream Classic. That can last me about two weeks comfortably while I am boondocking. And I do not shower every day. I'd probably say the absolute minimum I'd want for my build is 65 gallons, or what the earthcruiser comes with.
Living in a pickup truck isn't even a remote possibility. I'm sure it's technically possible, but that would sap too much enjoyment out of my adventures. After being in the military so long, I need some comfort.
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weissbrewer
Observer
Zybane,
There is a dreamy Siberian Tiger for sale used on the Provan Tiger Site.....
There is a dreamy Siberian Tiger for sale used on the Provan Tiger Site.....
Ya I've been looking at it. The full welded aluminum camper is interesting but there is a reason virtually no one builds expedition vehicle campers out of aluminum. Just too much thermal conductivity. Basically the only materials that conduct more are copper, silver and gold. And aluminum dents super easy.
Also, same issues with the F550 chassis. No lockers available/limited off-road capability. I bet Tiger Siberians/Earthroamers are sweet on the highway though.
Got the EarthCruiser price list. For the FXX with the options I'd want/need, $330K. $2500 for each 125w solar panel. Yeesh. At 92 square feet, that is only $3,500 sq/feet living space. :smiley_drive:
Also, same issues with the F550 chassis. No lockers available/limited off-road capability. I bet Tiger Siberians/Earthroamers are sweet on the highway though.
Got the EarthCruiser price list. For the FXX with the options I'd want/need, $330K. $2500 for each 125w solar panel. Yeesh. At 92 square feet, that is only $3,500 sq/feet living space. :smiley_drive:
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Hiya
There's a good comparison between fibreglass and aluminium for camper outer skin in Ulrich Dolde's "How To" book. Link below, no connection other than I think it's a good resource. He asked two German companies who each specialise in one of those two materials for their reasons why. Thermal conductivity didn't come in to it. Repairability did, but both sides have their pluses with that in my opinion.
Our previous camper was ally skinned but painted all except the roof which was left shiny. On a hot sunny day i couldn't sit on it even with some thick padding. But then I painted it white and it became lovely and cool.
That book suggested protection from lightening as a reason to go with ally, although some fibre builders can put a Faraday cage within their panel build up apparently. Hadn't thought about that before.
https://www.selfbuildmotorhome.com/
Hiya
There's a good comparison between fibreglass and aluminium for camper outer skin in Ulrich Dolde's "How To" book. Link below, no connection other than I think it's a good resource. He asked two German companies who each specialise in one of those two materials for their reasons why. Thermal conductivity didn't come in to it. Repairability did, but both sides have their pluses with that in my opinion.
Our previous camper was ally skinned but painted all except the roof which was left shiny. On a hot sunny day i couldn't sit on it even with some thick padding. But then I painted it white and it became lovely and cool.
That book suggested protection from lightening as a reason to go with ally, although some fibre builders can put a Faraday cage within their panel build up apparently. Hadn't thought about that before.
https://www.selfbuildmotorhome.com/
Ya but the Siberian entire structure, is welded aluminum. From the outside skin, to the structure, even the inside cabinets. Not sure if they incorporated any "thermal breaks". Great durability and will last forever, but thermal efficiency would be quite low. Far far lower than if the structure was fiberglass. I have an Airstream, pretty familiar with aluminum structure in hot/cold. It takes two 15K BTU air conditioners just to keep this thing (27 foot long 8 foot wide, 216 sq foot) at 70F interior when it is 90F outside with the sun shining on it. That is a ton of energy use per sq/foot. But of course the large single pane windows also heavily factor into it.
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DCGibbs
Observer
Zybane,
I highly encourage you to attend the Overland Expo, in Flagstaff, 3rd Week-end in May. Alan Feld of Sportsmobile will be there. You can get deep into the weeds with him regarding "Wants" vs needs. He's super knowledgeable about the "Overlanding" Community world-wide. He can give you lots of guidance. He is engaged with All Terrain Warriors out of AU, to bring in their All-in-One. Since you are happy with your Dodge RAM, why not do a frame off build, and add either a BiMobil EX425 Cabin on it, or a Small Bliss Mobil Cabin on it.
There are lots of "Kitters" that can help with dressing out the Water, Gray Water, Black Tanks, Electrical, hydraulics, Cutting your Portal, etc.
https://gearpatrol.com/2017/05/31/sportsmobile-sprinter-4-x-4-review/
https://www.bimobil.com
https://www.www.blissmobil.com
DCG
I highly encourage you to attend the Overland Expo, in Flagstaff, 3rd Week-end in May. Alan Feld of Sportsmobile will be there. You can get deep into the weeds with him regarding "Wants" vs needs. He's super knowledgeable about the "Overlanding" Community world-wide. He can give you lots of guidance. He is engaged with All Terrain Warriors out of AU, to bring in their All-in-One. Since you are happy with your Dodge RAM, why not do a frame off build, and add either a BiMobil EX425 Cabin on it, or a Small Bliss Mobil Cabin on it.
There are lots of "Kitters" that can help with dressing out the Water, Gray Water, Black Tanks, Electrical, hydraulics, Cutting your Portal, etc.
https://gearpatrol.com/2017/05/31/sportsmobile-sprinter-4-x-4-review/
https://www.bimobil.com
https://www.www.blissmobil.com
DCG
kevindhamilton
Member
Doesn't quite meet all your needs but might be an option (despite the mil-chassis): http://twoifoverland.com/were-for-sale-kind-of/
montypower
Adventure Time!
Have you owned an RV before? You might consider buying something cheap $30-40k and travel then decide what you want/need. Getting all the cool guy stuff is great... until you realize that you'll never engage the lockers because there's no way you'll risk your home and hundreds of thousands of dollars to drive through a ditch. Sprinter is a great option to consider. But really, consider carefully where you actually will want to attempt to drive something that is HUGE and HEAVY and EXPENSIVE. Style of travel matters too. Do you want to base camp or always be moving? If basing, then get a motorcycle or something cheap/light/inexpensive to explore. All these fancy vehicles are massive liabilities and lose money like crazy plus complicated to maintain. You could get a typical RV and lift it or 4WD convert it and be way ahead.
Michelle@EarthCruiser
Supporting Sponsor
Not sure if you've ever 'seen, touched, or felt' an EarthCruiser but its definitely worth doing as it will give a different perspective. The FX is not cave-like at all. It has a very cosy feeling, a bit different to the EXP because the EXP does have a 360 view. The window heights are a function of the angle of the body line.
A rear locker really isn't necessary as the Fuso comes with a very good limited slip --we can attest to its functionality as we've just spent several weeks in Africa as well as plenty of time in adverse 4x4 conditions here in the US testing the limits of our EXP. We have customers around the world doing the same, everyday.
We believe in function over form, and we utilise EVERY bit of available space. You'd be surprised at just how much storage there is in an EarthCruiser. Frankly we can't fill ours up because I just don't see the point in taking stuff I don't need or will never use.
As for the engine, the new ones will go 75 mph and at that speed they will suck fuel. They are not and never will be the fastest thing up the hill but they will keep going where others won't.
Expo is a good place to see, touch and feel things. At the end of the day it comes down to what feels right and meets your needs.
Yes, I plan to attend. Although, I haven't seen anything online that grabbed me and said "this is a perfect fit". I definitely like something on a cab over chassis. It seems smart to get rid of 4 feet of unused space like in the case of a large pickup truck. I also like that the cab on cab-overs rotates forward so you can do major repairs. From my research on most large duty pickups, the cab may need to be removed. With a over-cab camper, that could turn into quite the ordeal.
So getting rid of pickup trucks and limiting myself to cab-overs severely limits my choices. The Fuso and the LMTV series. MAN trucks that basically all of the Euro builders use aren't a thing really in the US. LMTV is a very heavy vehicle compared to carrying capacity. Plus you need to put in high speed gears, lockers, completely re-do the cab interior to make it hospitable. Easy $100+K for that vehicle base and truck with camper you are looking at ~23K on weight. MPG only ~6-7 or so.
The Fuso is ideal from a weight/size perspective. ~7K for the truck and ~5K for the camper maxes out the vehicle around 12K lbs. Excellent MPG for an expedition camper around 12-15. So that leaves ATW, Earthcruiser, I believe XPCamper can put their cube on it, OverlandExplorer could probably build a camper for it, the Woelek Autark Explorer looks very interesting.
If anyone know of anyone else that I didn't mention that builds expedition campers based on the Fuso 4x4 let me know!
Love my RAM Power Wagon but it's built for off-road and has really low carrying capacity. Would never hold the weight of a camper. Cargo capability is only 1400 lb!
Yes I've full timed in a Airstream Classic for two years now. It's been pretty nice but I think I've decided that RV parks are not where I want to set up base camp. I've been thinking about doing a large lithium/solar install on it for BLM land, but smaller expedition campers are very intriguing to me.
You are right, it's definitely about a "base-camp" or always have your house "at the trailhead" kind of mentality/decision. Both have their pro's and con's. If you start adding in all of the costs for RV parks etc, it starts to cancel out some of the high expense of an expedition camper. Of course you also lose a ton of room the closer you live to the trailhead. I'd be going from ~220 square foot to ~92 square foot in something like an Earthcruiser, and doubling the cost.
Michelle thanks so much for posting! I guess "cave-like" wouldn't be the proper term. I know those windows will let in a lot of light. I was more referring to say in my Airstream, sitting down with a cup of coffee on a bad weather day and being able to look out all the windows. With the windows in the FX being high, you would have light but not direct views of the outside (besides dinette windows) when you are locked inside for whatever reason, weather etc.
I'm usually not a fan of limited-slip, but I have read the Fuso's is pretty good. Of course those clutches will wear down over time though and need to be replaced. The one saving grace is that there is a front Torsen available, which would help a lot.
I understand you will have an FX and EXP at Flagstaff this spring?
mog
Kodiak Buckaroo
You might check out this thread https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/new-fg-in-the-usa.185000/#post-2406338 as Jonturgeon was looking to getting a Fuso Discover Camper shipped from South Africa until they when with a MB1120.
DCGibbs
Observer
Zybane, One of the biggest takeaways for the OL Expo, is the ability to chat with owners of one-off's, hands-on ability to see different Cabin builds, and re-connecting with people you haven't seen in a couple years. I like chatting with vendors about new products. The #1 downside, is it has grown. A day pass just won't get you to where, & to what you want to see. Great Conversations with people who have driven everything from a LandCruiser Camper to a Unicat on a MAN frame.
Zybane, today the Mrs. & I went to Barnes & Noble, to pick-up the Outdoor X4 mag, I had never seen the TREAD mag. In the Mar/Apr issue is an article entitled "Overland Camper - 2016 Cummins Powered Dodge 3500" I assumed it'd be an article about EarthRoamer adding an additional frame - It's Not. He added a custom finished service bed and a Lance Camper... I'm looking forward to reading the article. Thought you might too... DCG
Zybane, today the Mrs. & I went to Barnes & Noble, to pick-up the Outdoor X4 mag, I had never seen the TREAD mag. In the Mar/Apr issue is an article entitled "Overland Camper - 2016 Cummins Powered Dodge 3500" I assumed it'd be an article about EarthRoamer adding an additional frame - It's Not. He added a custom finished service bed and a Lance Camper... I'm looking forward to reading the article. Thought you might too... DCG
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Gibbs, you are right. I pretty much have to wait for OL Expo. I'll probably schedule 2 full days there.
The problem with truck campers is that I absolutely must have camper to cab portal access. I know some may think that is a silly requirement, and yes I guess you pay a lot of money for it. But it is my requirement. So that basically eliminates all truck campers.
EC is still in contention, but the priciest per square foot of any camper and not sold on those high windows until I see them at expo.
Another contender is a RAM AEV build with a custom Overland Explorer X10-X12 camper on back with a 3-point, out of Canada. I like the composite panels and how you can design your layout. Plus they say they can do portal access. I'd be concerned about AEV weight ratings, so may also consider a new F450, toss a full kelderman air suspension on there, with 20" Hutchinson super singles and 41" Goodyear G278's. I heard those tires are better overall than the 41" Continental Earthroamer uses. Plus you can now get a rear locker for the new M300 Dana under the new aluminum Super Duties:
http://dbldesign.com/products-gears/
So that would be a F450 Platinum with all the bells and whistles, plus those beefy F450 axles, front and rear diff lockers and maybe a camper that only weighs 4-5K pounds. I think that would put the chassis around 9K pounds, plus camper wet I shouldn't break 15K lb. $110K for the modified truck and $190K for the camper would put me right at about my max budget $300K. With portal access and massive solar+lithium though $190K may not be enough.
I heard those 41" military tires are a pain in the butt to balance. Beads required and still not enough. Anyone have experience in that realm? I know going with 19.5" rims is popular for truck tires, but no tires in that size fits my off-road needs, airing down etc.
Of course I could always just buy this and call it a day:
https://earthroamer.com/pre-owned-116/
I could put a front locker on it. Couldn't find a locker for the rear for the previous generation Ford super duty. Not sure if I'd want to as those axles aren't as beefy as the new ones.
These guys are launching a US office this summer:
http://discoverymotorhomes.com.au/
I think their layout is very interesting.
I've been looking at those "new" BAE civilian LMTV's down in Texas for sale. Supposedly they have cabin sound insulation, and they also have air conditioning. Biggest problem is they have that massive air filter system behind the cab, AND a massive DEF system next to it. Would have to re-locate all that stuff which would be a nightmare. Then add in the costs of diff lockers and high speed gears.
This truck that was worked on by a forum member here is for sale for $55K:
https://www.grigsbytrucks.com/vehicles/m1078-lmtv/
But toss in lockers, high speed gears, A/C and revamp the interior you'd also be up at about $100K. That would be pretty big build. It also brings it up to the price of an Excap.de Steyr, with those trucks a bit lighter and more suited for overland vehicles versus an LMTV. I could toss a KrugXP on the back, but the whole ordeal of buying a truck in Germany, a cabin in the Ukraine, merging them together somewhere in Europe, then shipping it over to the US with imports/customs may be too much of a process for me. I have no doubt that that would be the best use of my budget though.
I'm not gonna lie this would be a pretty bad-ass setup for $300K:
http://exd.earth/our-truck/
The problem with truck campers is that I absolutely must have camper to cab portal access. I know some may think that is a silly requirement, and yes I guess you pay a lot of money for it. But it is my requirement. So that basically eliminates all truck campers.
EC is still in contention, but the priciest per square foot of any camper and not sold on those high windows until I see them at expo.
Another contender is a RAM AEV build with a custom Overland Explorer X10-X12 camper on back with a 3-point, out of Canada. I like the composite panels and how you can design your layout. Plus they say they can do portal access. I'd be concerned about AEV weight ratings, so may also consider a new F450, toss a full kelderman air suspension on there, with 20" Hutchinson super singles and 41" Goodyear G278's. I heard those tires are better overall than the 41" Continental Earthroamer uses. Plus you can now get a rear locker for the new M300 Dana under the new aluminum Super Duties:
http://dbldesign.com/products-gears/
So that would be a F450 Platinum with all the bells and whistles, plus those beefy F450 axles, front and rear diff lockers and maybe a camper that only weighs 4-5K pounds. I think that would put the chassis around 9K pounds, plus camper wet I shouldn't break 15K lb. $110K for the modified truck and $190K for the camper would put me right at about my max budget $300K. With portal access and massive solar+lithium though $190K may not be enough.
I heard those 41" military tires are a pain in the butt to balance. Beads required and still not enough. Anyone have experience in that realm? I know going with 19.5" rims is popular for truck tires, but no tires in that size fits my off-road needs, airing down etc.
Of course I could always just buy this and call it a day:
https://earthroamer.com/pre-owned-116/
I could put a front locker on it. Couldn't find a locker for the rear for the previous generation Ford super duty. Not sure if I'd want to as those axles aren't as beefy as the new ones.
These guys are launching a US office this summer:
http://discoverymotorhomes.com.au/
I think their layout is very interesting.
I've been looking at those "new" BAE civilian LMTV's down in Texas for sale. Supposedly they have cabin sound insulation, and they also have air conditioning. Biggest problem is they have that massive air filter system behind the cab, AND a massive DEF system next to it. Would have to re-locate all that stuff which would be a nightmare. Then add in the costs of diff lockers and high speed gears.
This truck that was worked on by a forum member here is for sale for $55K:
https://www.grigsbytrucks.com/vehicles/m1078-lmtv/
But toss in lockers, high speed gears, A/C and revamp the interior you'd also be up at about $100K. That would be pretty big build. It also brings it up to the price of an Excap.de Steyr, with those trucks a bit lighter and more suited for overland vehicles versus an LMTV. I could toss a KrugXP on the back, but the whole ordeal of buying a truck in Germany, a cabin in the Ukraine, merging them together somewhere in Europe, then shipping it over to the US with imports/customs may be too much of a process for me. I have no doubt that that would be the best use of my budget though.
I'm not gonna lie this would be a pretty bad-ass setup for $300K:
http://exd.earth/our-truck/
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