Experienced expeditioner... expeditionist... I donno(?), new rider

[Pushbutton]

Hello everyone.

So, there are about 22.5 billion topics on this... But the overwhelming numbers of topics has left me :Wow1:

I am highly addicted to expeditions. I drive an FJ80 everywhere, my mountain bike has taken me on the Divide Trail... twice... Even my whitewater kayak was selected because I could fit everything I needed inside of it for a 12-day self supported trip down the Grand Canyon! (Yet my post count here is near non-existent... Interesting... Oh well) Anyway, time is becoming too short now-a-days for the epic mountain bike rides and there are just some things I prefer to do on two wheels rather than four so my attention turned to the world of dual-sport motorcycles.

Now my knowledge of motorcycles is virtually non-existent. I owned a bike 10 years ago... but it was a HD... I've never seen an ounce of dirt on one. So all of that makes my knowledge of dual sport bikes even less than non-existent. So I begun my search for what people tend to use for this type of riding and that's where I got stuck. Trucks, bikes, kayaks... their easy. Want a great expedition truck? Well you got like 3 choices and 2 aren't available in the US so there ya go. Bike? Build it ground up for what you want. Kayak? Even fewer choices than for trucks... But motorcycles? There are roughly 17,439 options and 12 times the number of opinions on each. So I figured I would ask you gods of the long distance two wheeler for you opinions on what bikes could suit my needs to help cut my search down to a few models.

So, for the criteria. I would like to keep the cost of the base rig as low as possible to free up more cash to fit it out with quality gear. (What is it... Farkle or something?) So obviously used. I would also like to keep the bike as simple as possible. I am mechanically inclined, but I prefer to have bullet-proof reliability while in the middle of nowhere rather than praying my mechanical skills are up to the task of fixing some tiny little obscure part in 120 degree heat with sand blowing in my face and, I donno, a mountain lion or something... You get my point. For riding conditions, I'm a fan of not being limited even if it doesn't do everything extremely well. For instance, the FJ80 is basically awful at everything... But it does everything, literally anything you ask of it. Sure, I will probably be on dual track with maybe a touch of single track thrown in most of the time with limited road use, but I may take it out around town every once and a while and it will have to do at least a bit of highway driving. Then there is the always dreaded roads hit during expo driving anyway, so highway speed is nice, but not the highest of priority.

Size-wise, I am 6'1" and around 260ish... So not petite. That said, I'm not really leaning to a big heavy bike. I hear they are better on the highway than the smaller bikes, but I did the divide on a single speed so I'm used to taking my time when things get flat, honestly if the bike gets THAT bad on a highway I'll tow it to where I want to go... Problem solved. I also pack extremely light. My pack weight before food and water on my bike is ~15lbs, now I know I will have gas, probably more tools, and heavier riding gear to add to that, but I think it just about evens out for my larger size as compared to other riders.

The bikes I have seen that have peaked my interest...

The BMWs - Look great, but even used they will run me more than my entire FJ80 cost to purchase and outfit... So they are out.

KLR - I have seen these talked about everywhere, but nobody says if they are using the 250 or 650. The 650 seems nice power wise and has a large tank, but it is heavy. I've heard that the 250 isn't much smaller size wise, but it is lighter making it nicer on the trails. The gas tank looks like it would need to be changed tho as it seems rather limiting. Prices, the 650s seem to be a little higher than where I want to be right now, though that could be because summer is just hitting. I have found a couple 250s local to me in the sub-1K range which would be ideal. They are older, but I would be tearing the whole bike down to learn the mechanicals before I did anything big anyway so I can take care of some things then.

KLX400/DRZ400 - It may be my complete ignorance of all things dual sport, but these seem like a great compromise between the two KLRs. More power and a bigger tank than the 250, but lighter than the 650. Not to mention, they go for about 1/3 of the price of a equivalent 650 around me, which is nice. I never hear them mentioned when people talk about DS bikes though, it is all about KLRs for budget bikes and BMWs KTMs etc for money projects, why is that? I don't know where I heard this, but I read that some bikes are essentially just street legal dirt bikes which (due to tighter tolerances on a dirt bike) causes reduced service life. Is that the case with the KLX/DRZ and that's why they aren't recommended? Is that even true?

Anyway, this has gone on waaaaaaaay too long. If you read it all, thanks! That's basically what I am looking for in a bike, I'm just looking for advice and experiences from those more experienced than myself to help narrow my search to a few bikes which will fit my criteria so I can keep an eye out for them and try them out to make my selection from there. Let me know your opinions on the models I mentioned or throw another one out there that I don't know exists which would fit what I am looking for. Older bikes are cool too, don't matter! Thanks for the help! :friday:

 

[Frank]

I'm partial to the KLR...but I will also tell you (I feel) it NEEDS suspension, carb mods and exhaust to be where it should have been out of the factory. 260 pounds...you are going to need that suspension. With your height, you would probably benefit from a different windscreen as well.

Limiting your travel...I can go about 200 miles before its time for reserve to come on. At about 130 miles, I am ready to take a break and stretch my legs anyways.

Don't forget to budget all of the other 'stuff' that goes a long with buying a bike. i.e. Helmet, jacket, gloves, etc. etc. A motorcycle gets very addicting, very quick.

A link to my KLR is in my signature.

 

[Stromgewehr]

I currently own a 2009 KLR and a 2011 Suzuki VStrom, I've put lots of miles on both of them both off road and on. Given your size and stated goals, I would stay away from both of those and strongly consider a Suzuki DR650.

The DR platform is a rock solid workhorse and well supported by the aftermarket. The DRZ400 is a fun bike but it's a bit of a thoroughbred in terms of maintenance vs the DR650. One notable advantage of the DR vs the KLR is that there is simply less stuff to break if you crash and because of that it's significantly lighter than the KLR. When the going gets tough on the trail, the DR will outperform the KLR hands down. After reading what you want to do with a bike, it seems like you intend to see very little freeway time. Given that situation, the DR is just more versatile.

Also as the owner of both a Kawi and a Suzuki, I will also say that the build quality and attention to detail is much higher on the Suzuki vs the Kawi. I'm really not trying to bash the KLR here. I love mine and it's not for sale, but it's taken a lot of time, effort and money to get it to the point where it is now. On the VStrom I add gas and change oil, thats it. It has been an exponentially more reliable motorcycle.

 

[goodtimes]

I'd look at the big thumpers (single cylinder) . . . 600 - 650cc range.

DR650s are great, so are the XLs. The smaller bikes (KLR250, DRZ400, etc) will likely leave you wanting a bit more on the long trips. They (small bikes) are great for setting up a base camp and exploring from there (I vastly prefer small ~200/250cc bikes for that), but not so much fun to live off of. Of course, Lois Pryce will disagree with me on that . . .

 

[robert]

Personally I'd boil it down to a couple of things a) how much time are you realistically going to spend on the road vs the dirt and how much of that road time will be at highway speeds and b) how much weight do you need to carry.

If you're going to spend much time at highway speeds you'll want the larger bike; if you're going to be going under highway speeds then something smaller than a 650 is fine. The larger bike will run the higher speeds at lower RPMs and it'll haul the weight doing it*. It'll also ride better with it's heavier weight- lightweight bikes get blown around more and, being tall, dual sports are even worse about it.

If on the other hand you prefer the blue highways and back roads then the DRZ or a smaller bike should work just fine. Off road the lighter weight is very noticeable. I spent a month in Laos riding a Honda XR250 and then a KLX250 and never felt the need for more bike. The KLX, even though fuel injected (overseas model) still topped out around 100kph or 60mph which about the norm for the 250 range- that was with my 235#s and a dry bag of junk on the back. Yamaha's WR250 is a better bike and will run a bit faster but not much.

All of these bikes really need a steering stabilizer for highway speeds and they help at low speeds too- it's next on my list of farkles for the DRZ. All of them can be upgraded somewhat by various additions. Every one I've ever ridden could benefit from a real seat instead of the factory vinyl covered 2x4. Seats are a compromise too though as a wide touring seat isn't very good off road but a narrow off-road saddle sucks for much longer than an hour at a time. Most can stand a larger fuel tank. Rejetting usually provides an immediate improvement (3x3 mod on the DRZ for example). Lots of bike specific stuff life improved electrical connectors, dohickys, etc. There are threads on each bike on AdventureRider.com as well as Thumpertalk.com.

Spend some time on Adventure Rider and you'll quickly find that all manner of bikes have been used around the world with success. Since all are compromises in some way you'll just have to figure out where you're willing to give. Like a lot of other riders, I own more than one bike and I still haven't found just what I'm looking for. I'm seriously thinking of selling the VStrom and buying a KTM990 though. :bike_rider:



*The DRZ in stock form starts running out of steam around 60mph and it doesn't have much more to give past 70 (can be important for passing). It really, really needs a sixth gear for the highway or you need to regear which then cuts into your off-road performance.

 

[Frank]

Also as the owner of both a Kawi and a Suzuki, I will also say that the build quality and attention to detail is much higher on the Suzuki vs the Kawi. I'm really not trying to bash the KLR here. I love mine and it's not for sale, but it's taken a lot of time, effort and money to get it to the point where it is now.

I would have to agree with this 100%. Like I said, the KLR really needs a lot to be where it should be from the factory, again my opinion. At the end of the day, the fairings are about the only thing I don't want to modify on my bike. lol. That said though....you can find stories all over the place where KLR's have traveled the world with nothing more than some bags and a rider.

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

I'd look at the big thumpers (single cylinder) . . . 600 - 650cc range.

DR650s are great, so are the XLs. The smaller bikes (KLR250, DRZ400, etc) will likely leave you wanting a bit more on the long trips. They (small bikes) are great for setting up a base camp and exploring from there (I vastly prefer small ~200/250cc bikes for that), but not so much fun to live off of.

+1
IMO, there's no one bike that does it all well.
If you want to mostly trail ride, get more of a trail bike, like a DR. If you want to mostly ride on pavement get a bike that leans more toward that aspect like a KLR or GS.
If you want a bike that needs to be supported and followed around by a full race team, get a 950 Adventure. If you want one made out of glass, but is a joy to ride, get a Tiger XC.
At the end of it all though, dual sport bikes make compromises, there is no one.
Think of dual sport's as the Ranchero or El Camino of motorcycles. They can kind of do it all, but they can't really do it all well.

 

[AZchris]

I'm a big guy (6'2 250) and just got back in to riding after a few years off. I picked a DRZ400s and it was a blast. With the Dunlap 606 tires it stuck to dirt like it was on tarmac, but on the highway it was really "buzzy". You shift into 5th around 45-50 MPH and while it will do 80, it doesn't feel comfortable there. However if you want to do trails and not plan on living above 55 for long periods of time its a great bike.

I wanted something I could ride on the highway more so I got rid of it for an '06 DR650. It had suspension upgrades, which are needed at our weight, and its a great bike. I "fit" the bike better, if that makes since. While heavier and not a dirt friendly as the DRZ, it sticks to the dirt roads I ride just fine, without any issues. I also really like the simplicity of it, it seems like there are 3 or 4 things that could go wrong on it, so repairs/maintenance is a dream...I mean you can even work on the carb without taking it off the bike, the DRZ you have to unbolt the subframe and everything is tight and hard to get to.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

[grahamfitter]

Whatever bike you ride, what you load on it and where has a huge impact on handling. You can certainly take a heavily laden bike plenty of places but if you need to spend time standing up or maneuvering through a tight line you'll have a lot more fun if you pack light.

Just like whitewater, packing the heavy stuff right way back is going to have you looking at the sky when you go through a big hole. Keep the weight low and centered as possible.

Obviously light is in the eye of the beer holder but backpacking mentality is a good place to start.

Ride on! :bike_rider:

 

[agavelvr]

Nice post! I have a similar backstory.

Check this trip report out and see if it is helpful...
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/70118

Packing light and looking for more "mountain bike-like performance"...Sounds like you might benefit from a lighter dual sport or dirt bike.
My KLR 650 was selected specifically for the trip linked above and for longer duration, self supported trips while camping off the bike. I'm a big guy, 6'4 and 265 lbs. And while I pack light, all the safety gear and bike specific tools/parts added up to over 70lbs! I ran a spreadsheet with the weights of all the stuff I would need to help me choose the bike, that pretty much eliminated the smaller bike in my case. As it is, I hit maximum payload on my KLR. I can hike into the woods with less than 20 lbs, including my clothing and boots. It is definately a balancing act filled with tradeoffs.

Good new is, you can score ton's of lightly used gear and bikes these days, bringing down your cost of entry. I opted for a new helmet, jacket, and pants. Pretty much everything else I have was purchased used.

Good luck! You're going to have some fun once you settle in on a bike.

 

[MarcFJ60]

All great advice and, yes, lots of options.

To me, the DR650 is the rock solid, do it all dual sport. The design hasn't changed since about 1996 so they can be picked up cheap. But, some bigger riders like yourself find them small.

The XR650L and pre 2008 KLR are also rock solid and may fit you better. Pre 2008 KLRs are a bit lighter than the current version.

The DRZ can do it all as well, it just does the street end less effectively. Although reliable, you'll find far more issues with DRZs than the other bikes. Most are known issues and correctable, but issues nonetheless. I'm also a bit skeptical about your pricing. A DRZ for 1/3 of a KLR or DR??? You can find good DR/KLRs for $2k all the time. Here, they are usually a bit more expensive. (Other smaller displacement Suzukis are also called DRZs other than the 400). To me, the DRZ is the street bike you take to the places you need a dirt bike. From what you described, I'm not sure you need a dirt bike (jeep trails, double track). But then, it all depends on how technical those trails are. There's concrete smooth single track but "forest roads" that would trip up a mountain goat).

Some others you might look at: KLX650, DR350, KLX250, XR600

If you want a bike where you're going to camp off or explore open spaces, I would do a 650. Tight forest trails or technical riding where you'll have to constantly manhandle the bike: think 250 or 400. The DR650 probably fits the bill, provided you can get comfortable on it. If not, I think a pre-2008 KLR checks all the boxes. (but so does pretty much every bike listed in this thread!).

One last thing: Since this is your first foray back into motorcycles, realize whatever you get may only be what you think you wanted. Once you get some time on the bike, you may realize you'd rather have a two stroke or Goldwing or something in between. Find a good deal on a used thumper and ride. Which one matters less than just having a bike to ride.