Express versus E-series (and other comparisons)

[vanroth]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

Demands from the wife have concluded that I either give up on camping or go a more sophisticated route. I briefly entertained going the Vanagon route, but after seeing how much my friend’s Syncro Adventurewagen would cost me, I’ve shifted towards the full-size van route. My intention is to start with a stock van and retrofit the interior for camping use. This would include fitting a high-top, a small lift, and larger AT tires. A 4wd conversion would be far into the future, if at all.

In parallel I’m upgrading my 2dr tintop Sidekick as my dedicated 4-wheeler (eventually replacing my Disco II). I figure this would work out perfect as I can easily flat tow the Sidekick behind the van when needed. Fully loaded it weighs less than 2800lbs.

So I’ve read a number of posts comparing the Chevys and Fords. It seems that most agree that the Chevy generally rode better and had a better gas motor. From searching, the Fords are much more plentiful and are much easier to convert to 4wd. I also have yet to find a used Duramax Express, whereas 6.0 diesel E-series seem relatively common.

Based on collective experience, are there any other determining factors between the two brands? Or is how it’s powered more important? My experience with the Ford 5.4l wasn’t great and I’ve heard it is a bit underpowered in the vans. I’d love a diesel, but again everyone seems to be dogging the 6.0 PS. On the Chevy front, the 6.0l petrol motor seems to fit the bill, though I would need a 2010 or newer to get the 6-speed. It seems I should be comparing the 6.0l gasser Chevy versus the 6.0PS Ford. Any thoughts?

What I see less discussion on is RB/SWB versus the EB/LWB. My wife is asking for some sort of watercloset, so I’m leaning towards the longer versions. I know the Express gains its length in the wheelbase while the Ford has an extended body. Which is the lesser of two evils? I don’t want to be stuck trying to navigate a monster.


thanks,
vanroth

 

[TroySmith80]

If 4WD isn't important to you, a vanagon could be quite affordable. They are well loved around here (and even more so on www.thesamba.com) and can be made into good little rigs. Just wanted to throw that out there so that you don't immediately put them out of consideration. The Syncro Adventurewagen is one of the most desirable (and expensive) models of the vanagon.

That said, i just sold my Westfalia to go the full-size route. There are things i will miss though!

 

[RocKrawler]

Longer wheelbase will typically ride better but is more prone to getting high centered. The powerplant will make a difference in towing, but your proposed load will be very light that either can handle easily. The Ford is a tougher package, and more easily built for extreme use, but if you are only tackling forest roads to get to camp and the sidekick is doing trail duties from there, remember that the Express can be had in AWD from the factory with no conversion necessary, albeit not easily modified from that point.

I think replacing the LR with a Kick will be a great gain in reliability and maneuverability, especially if you do the Trail Tough SAS kit, simply unstoppable.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rNhGyL9L_4"]YouTube - geo tracker -trailtough SAS[/ame]

and...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEUPBAD5PHg"]YouTube - Sidekick on the Rubicon for MCR09, 2010.[/ame]

 

[dhally]

Based on my research, if you want a 2WD lift I think the only option is Ford. Beware the 2010+ models all have stability control which may not work with a lift.

By the way Quigley now offers a Chevy IFS 4x4 with 2" lift. $3,000 option.

 

[Herbie]

I know at one point Overland Vans was offering Express 2WD lift spindle kits, and at least one member on this forum has swapped a 2-speed 4WD transfer case from a silverado into his Express, so I wouldn't say they're impossible to modify.

For forest roads, etc. then a relatively stock AWD Express would probably be more than sufficient, particularly with a rear locker, and would be cheaper than a 4WD converted E-series. OTOH if you want a true rock-crawling Sportsmobile clone, you're probably better off starting with the Ford, so it all depends where you want to end up.

As for interior space, if you're careful and creative, you can do a lot with very little. My Astro actually has LESS interior space than a Vanagon and I'm squeezing quite a bit in. If you want a WC with a door, it will eat quite a bit of space, but keeping the wife happy is always key, so you may be right that a LWB/EB may be needed there, depending on what else you plan to include inside.

 

[chasespeed]

It is all gonna depend on you. I was HARDSET on a Ford E series for a long time. BUT.....

My current work vehicle is a Chevy Express. 2005, 1 ton, 6.0 And, with my water drum full, pretty much loaded at GVWR.

I have no issues with power, ride, or handling... in fact, as much as I hate to say it, pretty impressed with the van.

NOW, for traction/off road. We service the HVAC equipment in cell towers. If you have seen any of them, they are NOT anywhere friendly.

I havent had ANY issues. Its all in your driving... I DID rip off the front air damn yesterday... put it back on, and did it again today... its staying off. The van rides on 245/16 all terrains.

We have a few Quigleys in the fleet as well....

If you go with a Ford, try to find a Early to Mid 90s... with the 5.8, better engine than the 5.4

If you go with the Chevy, as stated, Overland Vans offers(ed) a lift spindle.

The AWD is a great option. I know it can be lifted, I have seen a few.

Decide on your budget, and YOUR preference, and drive a few. Take your wife with you. Since she wants to be comfortable, she will probably go with the Express.... my 1 ton rides better than you would believe.

Chase

 

[mhiscox]

I didn't see mention of a Sprinter high-roof and I'm not sure why. 20+ mpg, a variety of lengths, a long-life diesel, and you don't have to add the high top to stand in it. Plus it tows 5K, has the best handling of all the vans and just putting it on 215/85x16 all-terrains will get nearly 9 inches of clearance with no lift.

Just sayin'.

 

[vanroth]

Thanks guys for all the great comments. I really do need to get out there and drive both (I've only driven an E-250). I might be leaning towards the AWD Express...

I think replacing the LR with a Kick will be a great gain in reliability and maneuverability,

Great to know there are some more Sidekick/Tracker fans out there. I think they are definitely a highly underated 4x4 option. At least once you get over the "hair dresser" reputation. Is that a Shrockworks bumper on the first video?


Herbie,
Speaking of the Astro, I believe it is another underated option. I seriously considered purchasing one last month as they are a lot of van for the money.

Mhiscox,
Yeah the Sprinter has a great factory high-roof. I just couldn't find any within my budget around here.

 

[Herbie]

Herbie,
Speaking of the Astro, I believe it is another underated option. I seriously considered purchasing one last month as they are a lot of van for the money.

Very true, but I stopped short of recommending the Astro for you just because of the comfort goals you mentioned. The Astro is a great van but it's more mini-van than full-size (I believe some of the old advertising called it a MIDi-van). It is definitely shorter than even a SWB express, a fact which has caused me certain consternation in my build and forced certain compromises, and without a high-roof, there is limited headroom, which also imposes certain challenges.

At the time I bought my van, I chose it mainly for the documented easy-and-cheap upgrade path from AWD to 2-speed 4x4 (just a transfercase and possibly driveshafts depending on years of donor/recipient). I couldn't get assurances that the Express would have the same ease of conversion. Now that it's been done and documented, I sometimes wish I'd gone with an AWD Express. The Astro is smaller and probably more nimble for more serious offroading (see the exploits of T.Low on this forum), but the extra headroom and length of the Express would have made so many things SOOOO much easier.

 

[SWbySWesty]

Don't rule out the pop top Westfalia. They can be had for decent prices! They have better clearance than some vans (I saw a sportsmobile sprinter yesterday and I've got more ground clearance). Easy to work on, but the only thing it lacks is engine power. If you can find one with a Subaru transplant, swoop it up! You'll be glad when all the hard work of designing and laying out the interior was thought out by zeeGermans and you just need to sit your butt in it!