eye opener about gvwr

[rruff]

When you start looking at numbers, it can become quite comical. For example, my wife's BMW X5 has a higher payload capacity (1,290 lbs) that the OP's Big Ram truck..

Yes, it's comical because it's bogus... if you thought that GVWR had anything to do with performance, safety, durability, etc...

Anyway... I've had both an '84 and '86 model of those little Toyota trucks, both 2wd. The '86 had a payload of 1450 lbs as I recall and I don't remember on the '84 but it was probably more, being a 5spd. My 2016 Tundra weighs literally >2x as much and has >3x the power. Its payload is 1400 lbs. Granted, the little trucks didn't break even when overloaded, but they were obviously, hugely adversely effected in handling, braking, etc. even with upgraded tires and suspension. I don't know how much weight I'd have to put on the Tundra before it would be comparably poor, but it would be a ridiculous amount. 5,000 lbs maybe?

I suppose many have the delusion that that there is a government testing and qualification organization that puts these trucks through a battery of tests and awards a GVWR number... but it's just something the manufacturer pulls out of their behinds to limit warranty and liability. That's it...

 

[MOAK]

View attachment 896448
Every expedition vehicle??? No, every Jeep and Tacoma? More than likely!

I think anyone who runs a vehicle like this owes it to themselves to run over a CAT scale and get real life weights.

This is my truck with a truck camper, full fuel tank, 37’s, 2 people and some camping gear, water tank was empty and there wasn’t much food or provisions since I was just picking it up.

GVWR on my truck is 11,499 so I have lots of room to play with. That said even with a 4200lbs payload my truck requires airbags to level back out.

Long story short if you’re going to run a Tacoma, Jeep or most 1/2T’s pack like you’re a backpacker. If you want to build an expedition rig build it on a proper platform to hold the weight safely. In my case F350 Tremor.

Yup- mine scales out at 10,920 with a GVWR of 11,400. I added leveling block in the rear but next spring we will be in Deaver’s shop for added spring leafs to support a constant 2,500lb +/- load. I considered airbags, but our build is permanent with the Flatbed Grandby F4WC weighing 2,000 lbs and a heavy rear TrailReady bumper. The stock Goodyear Duratracs weren’t cutting it either as they only carry a 121 weight rating, ( 6594 rear axle lbs), versus the 128 rated ( 7,936 rear axle lbs.) so many people pay no heed to these weight ratings and whine about stickers etc etc. Engineers happen to know what they are doing and understand the importance of GVWR and how that affects the wear and tire on drivetrains, suspensions and brakes.

 

[Gravelette]

I'm not confident enough in my own knowledge to say that GVWR are all bogus. I'm aware that similar vehicles are rated differently for different markets but I haven't seen a case where the vehicles have been shown to be exactly the same. I've read that some HD trucks have multiple ratings for licensing and taxes but I don't think that's what we are discussing. I became interested in this because my Frontier has such a low payload, despite sharing a number of components with the more capable Titan. So far I've been unable to determine the weak link, as it were, but I'm leaning toward the brakes. Great to read other experiences and opinions.

 

[TonyCatmandu]

The funny thing is the payloads are low but the towing capacities seem outrageous. The RV dealers will sell someone with a small SUV a large pull behind, hook them up, and send them on thier way. I understand there are brake controllers but 30 feet of fully loaded down RV barreling down a montain pass with a cross wind, yikes. Your truck can handle way more than the sticker says re: payload. Lawyers. For the manufacturer, for the insurance company, for all the other people out there that may hit you and try to go after your insurance company, you or the manufacturer. There is a safe margin of error as the companies know you are going to use it like a truck from time to time, not just to get the kids to soccer practice. Any suspension improvement would also help and increase the reallistic safe load for your use. I am not saying go get a Northern lite 10.2 and plop in on back but if you want a bumper and winch go for it.

 

[SimplyAnAdventure]

Yup- mine scales out at 10,920 with a GVWR of 11,400. I added leveling block in the rear but next spring we will be in Deaver’s shop for added spring leafs to support a constant 2,500lb +/- load. I considered airbags, but our build is permanent with the Flatbed Grandby F4WC weighing 2,000 lbs and a heavy rear TrailReady bumper. The stock Goodyear Duratracs weren’t cutting it either as they only carry a 121 weight rating, ( 6594 rear axle lbs), versus the 128 rated ( 7,936 rear axle lbs.) so many people pay no heed to these weight ratings and whine about stickers etc etc. Engineers happen to know what they are doing and understand the importance of GVWR and how that affects the wear and tire on drivetrains, suspensions and brakes.

So I thought about springs as mine is full time as well…. Hear me out. Air bags let me level my vehicle in almost any campsite in 30 seconds or less. I don’t know how I lived without them. Superior to heavy springs in every way that I’ve found. But to each their own.

 

[tacollie]

So I thought about springs as mine is full time as well…. Hear me out. Air bags let me level my vehicle in almost any campsite in 30 seconds or less. I don’t know how I lived without them. Superior to heavy springs in every way that I’ve found. But to each their own.

You got the Logiq dual bag set up? They are more expensive than my Alcans! I didn't even consider them given my experience with Ride Rites and Daystar cradles. Sounds like Logiq are a solid improvement.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

my truck is a 2016 double cab 4x4 hemi 5,7” bed with ram boxes outdoorsman trim. not sure what level options it has but its got electric windows and seats. no sunroof. it does have the annoying impact sensors in the bumpers.

i don’t see where it says the curb weight.

Combined weight of passengers and cargo 1072? I have to figure the fact that LT rated E tires listed on the sticker have a little something ti do with that. Not sure why they are listed on a 1500 series truck, as they may not be needed but they sure are heavy. I bet with P rated street tires you'd 100 lbs or so onto that combined weight.

Doesnt leave you much room. If you are like me at 200lbs, and bring a similarly sized buddy, that leaves you with 600lbs of gear, water, food.

While the insurance companies might have tremendous sway over the manufacturers and NHTSA, they also have a lot of sway if your 8,000 lbs truck-supposed-to-be a 6,800 lbs truck is involved in a collision in which someone is seriously injured.

Never forget that some countries out there are not as litigious as the US and dont regulate certain things as closely.

It doesn't matter until it matters.

My GMC Sierra 4x4 double cab (2014) has a combined weight of 1700 lbs. Minus me makes 1500lbs. I have LT tires on it so take off another 100 lb difference. So I try not to carry more than a thousand pounds, I just dont want to stress the truck unnecessarily.

But when I went out to Yellowstone and we slept in the back, we had a wooden built decked style system, totes, gear. Food, dog, Lady Beagle and stiff. I'm sure we were at or maybe even over

 

[rruff]

So far I've been unable to determine the weak link, as it were, but I'm leaning toward the brakes.

Possible but not likely. Newer vehicles seem to be traction limited (dry pavement), not brake limited. Among pickups, weight is the most important factor for stopping distance.

I did an analysis on here awhile back for a Tacoma and F250 diesel. In stock form the Tacoma stopped much quicker (C&D test), and it is very highly likely would stop quicker with a 2500 lb load as well, compared to a F250 with the same load... and that is even assuming that it becomes brake limited at GVWR.

If you have a well sorted suspension and good tires, durability (of something) would be your weak link I think.

 

[rruff]

So I thought about springs as mine is full time as well…. Hear me out. Air bags let me level my vehicle in almost any campsite in 30 seconds or less. I don’t know how I lived without them. Superior to heavy springs in every way that I’ve found. But to each their own.

My airbags were too bouncy. Adding 4 leafs to each side and removing the airbags and the overload springs helped a lot. But maybe the overloads were the main issue?

 

[llamalander]

The D40 Frontier happens to have the same weight rating (#) in Oz as America... except that in Oz they use Kilograms. Yes the breaks are a weak point, but durability doesn't seem to be. I'm rolling over 200K and replacing things like sensors and solenoids with my break pads, rubber parts and not metal ones. I don't know what the expectations of trucks are, because stopping and starting is certainly slower when full, but I would like to know why international manufacturers have such different ratings for the same model--

 

[SimplyAnAdventure]

My airbags were too bouncy. Adding 4 leafs to each side and removing the airbags and the overload springs helped a lot. But maybe the overloads were the main issue?

That could be. I have the Logiq HD kit in mine and part of that install is removing the overloads. I had Firestone bags on a previous truck and they bounced, the Logiq actually greatly improved the ride. It’s been my favorite upgrade to the truck to date.

 

[bartheil]

Many times the GVWR is not about the strength of the frame but the ratings of the springs and shocks.
I had a 2008 Kia Rondo (awesome road-tripper car for tall people) and the 7 seat version had 300lb higher load capacity than my five seat version. The only difference was that the 7-seater had a third row (added weight) and heavier springs.However, if I would load up my 5-seater with the same max capacity as the 7-seater, I would constantly hit the bump stops.

 

[Gravelette]

The D40 Frontier happens to have the same weight rating (#) in Oz as America... except that in Oz they use Kilograms.. .. I would like to know why international manufacturers have such different ratings for the same model--

Other than the Frontier/Navara, the Tacoma/Hilux is often mentioned. It may be that though they are based on the same platform, there are differences between US and rest-of-world versions. Again, I've yet to see a system by system comparison for either so we are just guessing.

 

[tacollie]

A lot of vehicles are overloaded. Many vehicles are probably fine going over GVWR but it's a guessing game.

I drove overloaded Toyotas on and off for 20 years. You can modify them to carry the weight. They'll go through brakes faster. I got tired of modifying Toyotas and bought a F250 with almost 3500lbs of payload capacity. It's been nice having a truck actually designed to carry weight full time.

Navara and Frontier share platforms. The Ranger does to. The Tacoma and Hilux never have.

 

[dstefan]

my truck is a 2016 double cab 4x4 hemi 5,7” bed with ram boxes outdoorsman trim. not sure what level options it has but its got electric windows and seats. no sunroof. it does have the annoying impact sensors in the bumpers.

i don’t see where it says the curb weight.

I’d like to point out your GVWR is 1,000 pounds lower than your combined gross axle weight rating (CGAWR). To my understanding the CGAWR is the standard that commercial trucks are held to for load capacity.

My case is similar: GVWR is 7100 and CGAWR is 8150 (with the stock springs, wheels, suspension). With my camper gas and occupants my wet weight is about 7600. My front is close to the GAWR for the front end and the rear is still a lot below the GAWR. Much of the weight is in heaver tires and significantly beefed up suspension, added lockers, and re-gearing.

I don’t worry about the GVWR overage. I am very focused on staying under the CGAWR, however. Truck handles far better than it did stock and empty with the mods. I think as long as you have tires and brakes that can handle the additional weight, I’m not sure it’s worth being over concerned about being a bit over GVWR as long as you don’t exceed the axle ratings.

You can bet that there were plenty of lawyers in the room when RAM set the GVWR, but the engineers fought the marketers and held the line on the CGAWR, even though they knew there was a 10% or more safety margin, which the lawyers insisted on.

You have to make your own decisions based on your use case, safety and risk tolerance and I’m NOT suggesting you load that rig up over it’s capacity. You just have to figure out what that capacity is based on all the specifics of your truck, which in the end nobody knows but you.