Financially Irresponsible 3rd Gen 4Runner
- Thread starter Milo902
- Start date
Milo902
Adventurer
Hmmm, maybe I overpromised? I'll see what I can do.
Evergreen12
Observer
My son has a 97 and he's getting ready to buy a set of Icon extended travel C/Os for the front paired with Camburg UCAs, and the Icon piggyback shocks for the rear. How did you like the OME 890 coils in the rear? Were they a good match to the rest of the Icon stuff? How much lift did you have to adjust the front C/Os to to level it out with the rear? I hadn't seen the adjustable caps for the resi's yet, pretty slick. He's having a hard time justifying the remote resi's for the front cost-wise but it seems dumb to have the piggyback resi's out back and not have them up front.
Milo902
Adventurer
Funny you should ask, I have been searching for an alternative to the 890's for a while. Short story; very firm (never harsh), great load carrying capacity, lots of lift (3.5-4.5" in the back).
Long story: Original plan was for an even 2" lift all around with a little bit extra of load carrying capacity, so I ordered the 906 coils for the rear. Come to find out the 906s free hight is actually shorter than the factory springs, and because of the increased travel of the Icons, they could fall out on full droop. That prompted me to move up to the 890s.
I have been rocking this combo for about 2 years, but honestly I'm not a huge fan. The truck originally gained 5+ inches over stock (probably worn) coils, and now it is settled to about 3.5-4.5. I measured it today at 24.5" from hub center to fender lip, according to the internet the 99 tall coils sit about 21", so 3.5 to 4.5" lift depending on which stock coils you have. It rides ok, but it's pretty firm and bucks a bit when I'm really driving hard. The problem is, the Icon's are charged w/ 250PSI, so they actually firm up the ride and provide some lift on their own. I'm sure the 890s with OME shocks are a great combo, but at least for my ride, it's too much. How much weight is planning on running? My CBI bumper adds about 40lbs, but even loaded down with people and gear it still sits ***-high. I think you would need a pretty portly truck for this combo. I believe CiY5 on here had the Icon/890 combo and has since moved up to an 891 for load carrying, maybe I got a set of 891s mislabeled? I will have to measure them sometime to confirm.
That being said, I have zero complaints and no regrets purchasing the Icons, you just can't seem to phase them. I would really like to drop the truck to 1-2" above stock, which means 99 coils (to soft?) or a custom coil. I will eventually add a bit more weight to the truck (sliders and maybe a sleeping platform) but I like to keep it light so I'm not sure if that will be enough. I never adjusted the front up to match for fear of tearing my CV boots, but they went anyways last summer. I'm guessing the front gained about 2.5" since I don't have any additional weight, but I lost my measurement numbers a while ago.
I would call Icon and talk to them. When I had the issue with the 906 coils they said the shocks were designed for use with stock coils, and I'm betting for a lighter rig, fresh 99 coils will work very well. You have to push the front pretty hard to justify the resi's. My only reason for upgrading is to get the compression adjusters, otherwise it's more of a nice to have vs. a need. Hopefully this was a helpful blurb.
Picture of 890, 906, & 135k '96 springs for reference.
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Evergreen12
Observer
Currently it will be running the stock rear bumper but future plans call for an aftermarket or custom rear bumper with a swing-out tire carrier. Sounds like it will end up sitting too tall in the rear with the 890 coils. Plan is to only adjust the front coilovers high enough to clear the new larger tires so as to retain as much down travel as possible. May have to look in to the 99 coils. May be a good match since the Icon rear shocks seem to add 1/2" or so of lift. Sure seems like if those shocks are adding lift then they are running too much of a charge. I've got a Nitrogen fill setup so we might have to play around with the pressure on them and see if it helps with tuning. Thanks for your insight, I'll take all the information I can find and surprisingly there doesn't seem to be a lot of good technical info floating around on this topic (at least for the 3rd gens).
Milo902
Adventurer
Sorry for the slow progress. I finally took my PE exam two weeks ago so no more studying! I had to help the roommate install an OME lift on his taco last weekend, but got back at it yesterday and today.
With the help of the grinder, dremel, sawzall, hammer, chisel, torch, blood, sweat, and music, the front is completely torn down. The DS side LCAs came off without issue, but the PS sides were a bear as the alignment cams were completely seized. The 8 alignment cam tabs came off with mixed results, glad I'm done with that portion of the job.
DS all torn down, ready for prep work before the cam tabs, coil bucket gussets and jounce shock mounts get welded up
LCA mounts sans cam tabs after lots of grinding and chiseling.
Comparison between the factory cam tabs and the Chaos version
Alignment cams and cam tabs spread out. Two of the alignment cams were seized and took forever to get out. A grinder runs right through them but lack of space meant most of them needed to be sawzalled. These things are tough! They pretty much laugh at sawzall blades, took 3-4 of them to get through 1 cam. Luckily persistence paid off and I was able to get them out before I got angry and did something stupid.
4 of the cam tabs are spot welded on and a pain to remove even after drilling out the spot welds (the 4 mangled ones). The other 4 are just welded on two edges, so after a bit of grinding with the dremel, they came off without protest.
With the help of the grinder, dremel, sawzall, hammer, chisel, torch, blood, sweat, and music, the front is completely torn down. The DS side LCAs came off without issue, but the PS sides were a bear as the alignment cams were completely seized. The 8 alignment cam tabs came off with mixed results, glad I'm done with that portion of the job.
DS all torn down, ready for prep work before the cam tabs, coil bucket gussets and jounce shock mounts get welded up
LCA mounts sans cam tabs after lots of grinding and chiseling.
Comparison between the factory cam tabs and the Chaos version
Alignment cams and cam tabs spread out. Two of the alignment cams were seized and took forever to get out. A grinder runs right through them but lack of space meant most of them needed to be sawzalled. These things are tough! They pretty much laugh at sawzall blades, took 3-4 of them to get through 1 cam. Luckily persistence paid off and I was able to get them out before I got angry and did something stupid.
4 of the cam tabs are spot welded on and a pain to remove even after drilling out the spot welds (the 4 mangled ones). The other 4 are just welded on two edges, so after a bit of grinding with the dremel, they came off without protest.
Milo902
Adventurer
Got the passenger side cam tabs all welded up tonight. These have been a bit more work than I was expecting, hopefully they are worth it. As to be expected with fabrication parts, there was a bit of grinding to make them fit, but nothing crazy. Lying under my truck on the greasy floor made me really want a lift. There isn't a whole lot of room under there for welding which really made getting these on a challenge, and it shows with the quality (or lack of) of my welds.
Cam tabs aligned and ready for welding
All welded up, not very pretty, which is apparently my MO when it comes to welding. We all have to start somewhere eh?
Got the shocks all tucked away in their box and off to Icon today. They should arrive Friday and hopefully be rebuilt and back to me by next weekend.
Cam tabs aligned and ready for welding
All welded up, not very pretty, which is apparently my MO when it comes to welding. We all have to start somewhere eh?
Got the shocks all tucked away in their box and off to Icon today. They should arrive Friday and hopefully be rebuilt and back to me by next weekend.
Milo902
Adventurer
If you're planing the bumper in the near future, they are quite tolerable, I ran mine for 2 years. The picture in the beginning of this thread is with the 890/icon combo in the back, stock bumper & hitch, no extra weight in the back. With a swingout the 890s should be a good fit.
For a lighter weight setup, 99 coils may be the ticket. I am still trying to figure out what to do with the rear of mine, and it seems either 99 coils or custom coils. I know a few years ago there was a company (performance products?) that made a 1" lift spring, but I think they are long gone. Bummer, as it sounds like the perfect in between setup.
Reservoir shocks like the icon piggybacks generally run a pretty high charge (250PSI IIRC), so it's pretty common for them to add a small amount of lift. I would talk to icon before you adjust the pressure, as it might cause issues.
Milo902
Adventurer
Now that cam tabs are all done, it's time to get on the total chaos coil bucket gussets. These definitely require some grinding to fit right, as every frame is slightly different, especially in the welds. They were quite time consuming to fit, but the real bear was prepping the frame & coil bucket for welding. It took a few hours to get the paint off, mostly because access is limited.
DS gussets fitted, ready to tack weld.
I notched the front gusset on each side so the ABS sensor wire could still sit in it's factory spot.
Tacked
PS rear, there is about 1/8" gap here, not ideal but close enough for government work. Chaos said this is the max gap they would recommend. The gusset was being held up off the frame here by the bolt itself, so no amount of grinding would have helped. The only other option was to enlarge the bolt hole to allow the gusset to drop down, but I didn't like that idea either.
PS front fit better, you can see the notch for the ABS wire.
PS side ready for tacking.
PS side fully welded. I followed the recommended chaos procedure of fitting/tacking the gussets with the arm in place, then I removed the arm and put the bushing sleeves back in for final welding to minimize warping. This worked ok, but the gussets still warped enough to really tighten up on the bushing sleeves. I welded all sides, but the rear of the coil bucket has very limited access, so they weren't pretty...
Painted satin black
New Light Racing UCA installed with generous helpings of grease and anti-sleaze.
DS gussets fitted, ready to tack weld.
I notched the front gusset on each side so the ABS sensor wire could still sit in it's factory spot.
Tacked
PS rear, there is about 1/8" gap here, not ideal but close enough for government work. Chaos said this is the max gap they would recommend. The gusset was being held up off the frame here by the bolt itself, so no amount of grinding would have helped. The only other option was to enlarge the bolt hole to allow the gusset to drop down, but I didn't like that idea either.
PS front fit better, you can see the notch for the ABS wire.
PS side ready for tacking.
PS side fully welded. I followed the recommended chaos procedure of fitting/tacking the gussets with the arm in place, then I removed the arm and put the bushing sleeves back in for final welding to minimize warping. This worked ok, but the gussets still warped enough to really tighten up on the bushing sleeves. I welded all sides, but the rear of the coil bucket has very limited access, so they weren't pretty...
Painted satin black
New Light Racing UCA installed with generous helpings of grease and anti-sleaze.
Milo902
Adventurer
thanks, the cam gussets are not very fun. The hardest part is definitely the 4 that are spot welded on, as getting a good drill in there can be tight. The other 4 come off pretty quickly with a few minutes of dremel work. I unfortunately don't have a real air compressor, an air chisel would have been a big help.
I also opted to completely weld the outside of the cam gussets, not sure if that was required. You could probably get away with running a bead along the side of each and calling it good, as it can be pretty tight to get a torch in there.
Milo902
Adventurer
Yes, a speedster indeed. One of my (many) previous rides was a '90 pickup with the infamous 3.slow. Despite all the hate I thought it was an ok motor. Not fast, but certainly more than adequate, even in the rockies. My only complaint was the cramped engine compartment made it a chore to work on.
Milo902
Adventurer
Well brought my LCA's into the shop to have them press in the new bushings, didn't go so well. They started with the PS side and the seized bushings defeated their press in short order. Instead of giving up, whatever ape they put on it decided to get out the air chisel....
Needless to say while they did get one bushing out, they destroyed the arm. I was a bit annoyed since I had already bought new OEM bushings, could have saved some $$ and a few headaches by just getting new arms from the start. I guess just one more shop to cross off my (very short) approved list.
Needless to say while they did get one bushing out, they destroyed the arm. I was a bit annoyed since I had already bought new OEM bushings, could have saved some $$ and a few headaches by just getting new arms from the start. I guess just one more shop to cross off my (very short) approved list.