Financing a Land Cruiser (built)

[Happycoop]

I've been searching quite a bit lately for a Cruiser (80/100/200), and they are certainly a unique vehicle. Not only are the miles incredibly high on most, contrary to my experience with almost every other vehicle out there, the built Cruisers command a significantly higher price than a stock one. In the used Jeep market, I can generally buy a built rig for the same or often much less money than a stock one would cost. Cruisers seem to be the opposite.

So my question is, how do folks finance the Cruisers? My bank will only lend ~120% of the vehicle market value, and yet most listings I find are for Cruisers priced at 150-200% or more (and listings for even a mild build can be in excess of 300% of the book value).

Sure, I could buy a basic Cruiser for $6-10k...but then I've got a loan payment plus thousands in build costs that come out of pocket [modifying a Cruiser certainly doesn't seem to be cheap]. It would be far easier on the wallet to buy a built or slightly modified rig and pay the higher monthly payment, but I'm not sure how to convince the bank that they should loan me $20k+ for an expo-ready rig that their books say is only worth $8-10k.

Any magic insights? I've thought about going to something like Lightstream or a similar peer-2-peer lending and treating it like a classic car purchase, but that bumps the interest rate quite a bit.

FWIW, my last rig I ran into the same type issue...a Porsche Cayenne. I took the general advice of buying the nicest, lowest mileage one I could...and then never saved up enough on the side to modify it to my needs/desires (so I sold it to get my $$ back out). I tend to swap vehicles often (I'm 37 and on my 52nd vehicle), so I try not to get upside down in a purchase as I may get bored and change up before too long.

Thanks in advance!

Coop

 

[(none)]

IMO, don't finance mods. If you are going to have to finance a modded vehicle, finance *at most* what the vehicle is really worth. You don't want to be paying interest on an already depreciating asset plus depreciating mods on that asset. People think their vehicles are worth how much they actually put into them (I put $2k in suspension on, now I increased the value $2k!!). Nope. There is no way I'd be paying for all of that.

Not to be a *******, but you were on the right track before, you just did it wrong. Buy nice, low mileage and cheap. Then mod. If you can't afford that, then start out cheaper.

If you really want that $20k land cruiser that's only worth $8k, better save up $12k cash.

or just wait for the land cruiser bubble to pop.

 

[toylandcruiser]

IMO, don't finance mods. If you are going to have to finance a modded vehicle, finance *at most* what the vehicle is really worth. You don't want to be paying interest on an already depreciating asset plus depreciating mods on that asset. People think their vehicles are worth how much they actually put into them (I put $2k in suspension on, now I increased the value $2k!!). Nope. There is no way I'd be paying for all of that.

Not to be a *******, but you were on the right track before, you just did it wrong. Buy nice, low mileage and cheap. Then mod. If you can't afford that, then start out cheaper.

If you really want that $20k land cruiser that's only worth $8k, better save up $12k cash.

or just wait for the land cruiser bubble to pop.

X2. Mods do not make a vehicle worth more than a stock one.

 

[BulletHead]

X2. Mods do not make a vehicle worth more than a stock one.

That's not entirely true. An Earthroamer is worth more than a F-350.
If you are saying from the bank's point of view, yes, they wouldn't see the mods increase the vehicle's worth. It's worth whatever they go by, NADA, KBB etc. But to the end consumer, the mods DO make a difference. A built 200 is worth more than a stock 200, to the consumer.

 

[4Beast]

As was already mentioned, the mods only increase value in the vehicle seller's mind, so shop around for a well priced one. I would imagine you could find one in the 120-150% price point that has the minimum that you are interested in (maybe bigger tires or a lift) buy it, have fun, figure out what else you want, and slowly add to it. Maybe you decide that you don't actually want/need a big safari roof rack that you thought you might, or a rear bumper (the spare location can already hold an oversize spare) or 200 pounds of belly armor. Unfortunately, a lot of mods are linked to one another (want a steel bumper, need heavier springs, need heavier springs, get different shocks etc, or want a fridge, need always-on heavier gauge wiring, "need" dual battery setup, and so forth). You can certainly do a lot with a stock cruiser though.

 

[DaveInDenver]

X2. Mods do not make a vehicle worth more than a stock one.

Sometimes they do but I've also seen mods that don't or perhaps decrease the value, especially if done poorly. I'd personally never finance a vehicle and certainly wouldn't take a loan on anything other than a complete unmolested stock one.

 

[MTSN]

Mods don't increase the value 1 for 1, but a well built truck is certainly worth more in the marketplace than a stock one. Buying built usually saves you money from what you'd pay for a stock one plus the cost of mods. If it doesn't, the truck is overpriced. Personally I don't believe in taking out any debt for vehicles because of the concept of paying (non tax deductible) interest on top of depreciation, but if there's no way to pay cash for it take out the smallest loan at the lowest interest rate possible.

 

[Happycoop]

Thanks for the detailed replies. While I'd love to be able to pay cash for a rig, it's just not in the budget at this time. While I could buy a lower cost [higher mileage] rig with cash, the general consensus seems to be unanimous to buy the lowest mileage one you can find when it comes to Cruisers. I could certainly wait and save until I have the cash to buy the rig and modify it, but I'm not getting any younger (poor excuse I know). I have a daily driver that I'll sell once I find my next rig; the only thing worse than having a loan on a vehicle is having two loans on two vehicles.

Ideally I'd love to buy a [recently] mildly built rig at a slightly higher price than a stock one, thus saving me the retail cost of the mods, and allowing me to jump in and go. I've been down the buy a stocker and modify it route (which can get expensive very quickly), as well as the buy the totally built rig (and have to repair a rig that's been beat on for years). It sounds like the consensus is that it's reasonable to pay slightly more for a nicely modded rig, but that even the Cruisers don't necessitate going too far over book value. That helps, as it gives me hope that if I continue my search enough I can find something at a reasonable price.

 

[SoCal Tom]

Thanks for the detailed replies. While I'd love to be able to pay cash for a rig, it's just not in the budget at this time. While I could buy a lower cost [higher mileage] rig with cash, the general consensus seems to be unanimous to buy the lowest mileage one you can find when it comes to Cruisers. I could certainly wait and save until I have the cash to buy the rig and modify it, but I'm not getting any younger (poor excuse I know). I have a daily driver that I'll sell once I find my next rig; the only thing worse than having a loan on a vehicle is having two loans on two vehicles.

Ideally I'd love to buy a [recently] mildly built rig at a slightly higher price than a stock one, thus saving me the retail cost of the mods, and allowing me to jump in and go. I've been down the buy a stocker and modify it route (which can get expensive very quickly), as well as the buy the totally built rig (and have to repair a rig that's been beat on for years). It sounds like the consensus is that it's reasonable to pay slightly more for a nicely modded rig, but that even the Cruisers don't necessitate going too far over book value. That helps, as it gives me hope that if I continue my search enough I can find something at a reasonable price.

I've purchased older rigs with a "personal" loan, rather than a vehicle loan. Interest rate was higher, but that was the only way they would go. My last "trail rig" was built over 15 years. I took my time, and slowly upgraded when deals were available. Its amazing how often people part out rigs they overspent on ( can't afford the payments for all the stuff they bought with Credit cards). During that time you can also determine what you really need. I started out with cheap DYI bumpers, to protect the body but other than that it was a slow upgrade process.
Tom

 

[NCFJ]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread for sure. Borrowing for what amounts to a toy is something I would not do so I won't get into that aspect.

To start, these trucks are beyond capable in OEM trim. Larger AT tires and a mild lift will take you almost anywhere. If I were in your shoes I'd look for the cleanest lowest mileage, best maintained truck you can find. Drive it a while and see if you really need all thee Mods you think you need. Make your own changes from there. Used equipment is always for sale.

Here is a little "hope" for you. I bought up several 80 series trucks (5) with blown motors or trans, for use as donors. One of them, a 95 with lockers front and rear I picked up for $750, sold an ugly bumper off it for $250, so I had $500 into it. Had a "blown" motor, drove it up on the trailer puking water. My wife checked it out when I brought it home and asked me about it, I discovered a 3" crack in the lower radiator tank. It was a new radiator.

My wife called the number on the oil change sticker on the windshield and it turns out they installed the new radiator. The guy faxed her over the NAPA receipt and she promptly got a brand new one at the local NAPA for free. I installed it with new hoses and a new stat and it has been running fine ever since, 2.5 years. It has what most believe to be a wrist pin tap. Keeps on going though. I built a front bumper and sliders, put a 2.5" lift on it and some nice tires. It's our primary wheeling truck and we take it everywhere.

 

[Happycoop]

NCFJ, that was an amazing find on the 95...kudos to you for realizing the value there and acting on it. The factory lockers alone would be worth more than the total price you paid!

I daily drive all of my rigs, so while it certainly is more than a Point A to Point B vehicle, it's not only a toy. I've gone the two vehicle route before, with an old Civic to commute in and a Bronco on 40's to explore in. I found that I just like driving the built rigs more, and the Civic would sit in the driveway more often than not. I'm lucky in that I now only go into the office one day out of the week and work from home the rest of the time...so it seems like a perfect time in my life to have an expo rig that sees daily driver duties.

We live in Florida right now, and many of the trips we'd like to do are in the midwest and west coast. That's part of my hesitation in buying a cheaper rig to build...I need to know it can make the drive across the country, explore along the way, and still get us back home (which is also what makes me think the Land Cruiser is a great fit).

Again, I appreciate all the input from folks. Definitely helps to hear what folks who have been down the Cruiser road before have done and would recommend.

 

[redthies]

Here is a little "hope" for you. I bought up several 80 series trucks (5) with blown motors or trans, for use as donors. One of them, a 95 with lockers front and rear I picked up for $750, sold an ugly bumper off it for $250, so I had $500 into it. Had a "blown" motor, drove it up on the trailer puking water. My wife checked it out when I brought it home and asked me about it, I discovered a 3" crack in the lower radiator tank. It was a new radiator.

My wife called the number on the oil change sticker on the windshield and it turns out they installed the new radiator. The guy faxed her over the NAPA receipt and she promptly got a brand new one at the local NAPA for free. I installed it with new hoses and a new stat and it has been running fine ever since, 2.5 years. It has what most believe to be a wrist pin tap. Keeps on going though. I built a front bumper and sliders, put a 2.5" lift on it and some nice tires. It's our primary wheeling truck and we take it everywhere.

I had an almost identical situation with the 96 4Runner I bought this winter. Guy said it had a major coolant leak and said "I replaced the rad so it can't be that". I bought it cheap, took the "new" rad back to NAPA and bolted in one that wasn't cracked. Cost me 45 mins of my time and away I went!

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I could buy a lower cost [higher mileage] rig with cash

This is what I'd do in your case, then I'd set some money back for repairs in a savings account before I go spending on mods. You see fixed up trucks for sale all the time because guys get in over their head. It could be anything from an illness to a job loss then you have to sell a truck that you maxed out the credit cards fixing up. The truck is gone, but the payments are still there. I know this is not the popular opinion but its the right one. Good luck.

 

[DCH109]

So a few question.
Can you work on your own vehicle? Yes or no? Yes they get one. No, get something else.

Up here I can get an unmolested 80 6-7K yes the mileage may be in the 170-220K range, but then my 2007 F150 has 150K so for something built in the 90's that is nothing.
As for what they can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a9tj3nTfOs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnAHIH4p5Vg have a look at what Fred does there. To start off he does very little if anything to the Cruiser and still has a blast.

 

[collk22]

So my question is, how do folks finance the Cruisers?