First Gen Cummins, accept no substitutes

[bondvagabond]

Well, through a twist of fate, I was able to pull the trigger on a first gen cummins about a year earlier than planned.

I put my International scout project on craigslist for an unrealistic price and it was accepted :Wow1:


Then found a screaming deal on a 1990 w250 with a 1991.5 cummins swapped in. Poor guy needed to fix up the family rig with more seating, with the 3rd kid on the way, regular cab wasn't gettin-r-done. Getrag 5speed, 3.73 gears, 315/75/16 tires, 20% tread left, fancy aluminum wheels, factory rear limited slip, all a/c components are there, but dosen't get real cold he said (was very cold outside when I checked it.) Skyjacker leveling kit in front, silly stainless nerf bars that the wife loves for climbing aboard. Cd player, power windows, power locks (not working atm) 3inch exhaust, very slight timing advance, converted from computer controlled alternator to external voltage regulator (common repair)

Work I've done so far:
New air filter
Oil change
Free fiberglass canopy(was pretending it was a chicken coop on my parents farm since last I had a fullsize rig.....)
cleaned battery cable connections

Work to do:
Battery is dud, torn between great big single or smaller duals, cheap out with autozone crappy battery, or get a good diehard platinum.

rear tire has slow leak, need to fix then save up for new meat.

Get rigging to use my hilift as a winch, including snatch block, since hilifts are only rated at 7k

Some sort of winch, would love a pto. With my all mechanical diesel I could have a winch even without a working battery, I could park on a hill and be all set, even if the electrical system went crazy. I've found a good deal on a 10k pto winch setup, but it is from a chevy 1 ton np205, comes with the whole transfer case, so maybe between the two I could make one work? don't know if the internals are the same? Need info on how to check.
If I can't swing a pto, I will probably do a worm drive electric. Most of them I've seen used are 8k, but they hold 200ft of cable, so even with a snatch block I could still do almost a 100ft pull with 16k load. I don't rock crawl, mostly need a winch to get through the mud here in the northwest, since I am solo 90% of the time.

Put ramcharger tank in underbed spare tire location. The missus and I like to drive out to the middle of nowhere in eastern oregon. Would also allow me to do a veggie oil system down the road to save money

Some sort of locker up front

Junkyard onboard air

Junkyard onboard welder

Weld up some sort of swing out tire/jerry can holder

install 24gallon freshwater tank that I got at a garage sale for 1$

Some sort of sleep in bed system, but like metcalf with his do it all dodge (i'm not worthy I need to be able to use truck like a truck. So must be collapseable. Have a mil-surp tent wood stove, would be awesome to figure out a way to have it in the bed for snowcamping/winter expeditions to work on the cabin. I'm thinking one of those little crank up vents like on rvs, with a home made metal cap that would replace the plastic/fiberglass one when I used the woodstove.

Let me know what you think, especially about np205 pto winch compatibility.

 

[redthies]

Allow me to be the first to congratulate you on your 1st gen! I am just waiting for the phone to ring and tell me that the 1st gen I am trading my LX for is on it's way! Yours looks a little better, but I hope to have mine all purty by springtime. I hope you can get your pto sorted. That would be a great addition. Post up some more pics!

 

[bondvagabond]

Ha, couldn't decide between the 80 series land cruiser/lx 450 and a 1st gen cummins myself, so talked the wife into an 80 series, and got a cummins what can I say, I'm an ideas man.

Good luck on your trade, what kind of cummins are you getting? Do they salt the roads where you are in BC? Does the old junk rust out real bad?

If you are getting one, you must have coveted one for a while, any recomended upgrades? Suggestions for other newbie cummins expedition rigs?

 

[lstzephyr]

Cool truck, looks like a great start. Get a 366 spring if you don't have one yet. An egt gauge is great for not sitting around in the truck wondering if the temps are too low or too high. You already have front springs and tires so good there. The old lift pumps are a known weak point and a lot of people upgrade those to a newer low pressure piston pump.

Your ideas sound great. I am interested in your pto winch idea, as well as what you do with the water tank.

 

[bondvagabond]

This is actually my first diesel that wasn't on a sailboat. I used to repair boats for a living, did lots of diesel repowers/repairs, but sailboat diesels are like hammers, they are so simple. Excited to expand my knowledge base.

First mod is battery because mine is shot, charged it to 13.5v last night, this morning is 12v just sitting in my garage that is half way between inside and outside temps.

I can get a diehard platinum group 65 (rebadged odyssey) from sears for $200 with 950cca and 135min reserve. 4 year free replacement They have a group 31 marine with 1150cca 200min reserve but its 259 and 3 year replacement.

It would be nice if I could figure out that pto winch compatibility before I bought my battery. If I get a pto winch, my battery choice becomes less critical.

Who is the pto guru on the forum here? It would be great if I could send them a pm and pick their brain.

 

[redthies]

Ha, couldn't decide between the 80 series land cruiser/lx 450 and a 1st gen cummins myself, so talked the wife into an 80 series, and got a cummins what can I say, I'm an ideas man.

Good luck on your trade, what kind of cummins are you getting? Do they salt the roads where you are in BC? Does the old junk rust out real bad?

If you are getting one, you must have coveted one for a while, any recomended upgrades? Suggestions for other newbie cummins expedition rigs?

I have owned an '05 3500 4x4 shortbox and a '94 2500 Reg cab 4x4. I loved the power in both, but the simplicity of the 12 valve wins in my book. The 1st gen I am looking at is an '89. Mechanic (diesel truck) owned as well. It has a small rust hole on the lower front fender (common spot) and that is about it. He bought it to do a 600 mile a week commute through the mountains to avoid putting a heap of miles on his mint '03 F350 with 7.3 and 6 speed.
I am going to miss my 80, but I am loading it with all sorts of crap on a daily basis, and it just isn't good. I love a 12 valve 5 spd, and the one I am trying to land has a bunch of the simple go fast(er) mods done. The 3200 rpm governor spring (366 spring) is a good idea to start. I drove one without last week and it really shuts down early. Still fun, but there is so much more to be had! I would start a separate thread with "pto" in the title and I'll bet some of the guys with knowledge will be onboard in a hurry. Oh, and I bet the canopy on "my" '89 is waaay uglier than yours!

 

[lstzephyr]

Before you replace the battery make sure it isn't the voltage regulator. The firewall VR have issues with failing apparently from the heat. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the po just put it on a charger and didn't tell you.

These cummins aren't much more complicated than a yanmar or the like, just a whole bunch bigger. The engine will run without any electrical power too, which is useful.

Other things I just thought about: Check the valves as it seems no one ever adjusts the valves on these trucks. Also the starters fail more often than gas starters, if that happens to you don't trash it! There are readily available starter rebuild parts available online. Don't worry about the starter leaving you stranded, a swift whack with a hammer will get it to start in an emergency.

Dieseltruckresource.com is a good reference for these trucks and so is cumminsforum.com if you don't mind wading through bs to get to good info.

 

[bondvagabond]

Before you replace the battery make sure it isn't the voltage regulator. The firewall VR have issues with failing apparently from the heat. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the po just put it on a charger and didn't tell you.

I'm pretty sure the bat is toast. I charged it up all nice with a 2 amp trickle charger, got it nice and full, then left it overnight in my 50* F garage and it dropped a bunch of voltage.

It has the mopar VR that lots of people swap in when the computer charging control system fails. Can I check one with a multi-meter or do I need to take it in to an auto parts place? If so, how do I home check it?

Checking the valves is on the menu. I did that on the cheap suzuki samurai I got that "needed an engine rebuild" and it's top speed loaded went from 55 to 65 mph!

I really need to get the factory service manual, anyone know the cheapest place to get them?

 

[Rot Box]

Its not an IDI but I guess its still cool... LOL j/k Nice truck!

Some improvements for the first gens that I'd recommend have already been mentioned and they include a better steering column to box shaft. Borgeson makes a great fix for around $200.

Also have the valves adjusted and also have the injector pump timing set (they loose time over time).

The best thing I ever did to mine was install a 12cm housing on the exhaust side (14 is recommend but 12's can be had cheap!) of the turbo and increase the fuel delivery to match it. The improvement in throttle response was night and day along with cooler operating temperatures. There are other options but this was the cheapest I found.

Get the best battery you can afford with the correct CCA's.

Royal Purple 5w-30 (or other high quality syn.) overfilled one quart in the Getrag.

Above all else: Air those tires down a bit offroad. Your kidney will thank you in the long run :coffeedrink:

Have fun keep us posted with updates!

 

[bondvagabond]

Tried calling sears auto today in the big town 30 miles away to make sure they had my rebranded odyssey battery before I drove over there, no answer:Wow1: Will try tomorrow.

Think I have settled on one big battery for now, just to save money. This is very much a budget build. If I do go electric for my winch, it will be used only rarely, so one oversize excellent quality battery should be okay.

Cleaned the bejesus out of the shop today in preparation for finishing the baselining of the truck. We just bought our first house, and went from a 4 bedroom to a 2 bedroom so the garage was full of overflow. Built some shelving, got the dodge bed full of stuff to go to the goodwill. See, it even helps me help it

Taking some time off next week to be around the house taking care of the missus during her next dose of chemo. Should be able to get some things checked off the list on the truck while she is zonked out. will try to remember to take pics.

 

[redthies]

Where are you in Oregon? We spend a ton of time there. I think the hardest part of trading my 80 for 1st gen will be losing the Dutch Bros sticker on the back window!

 

[rxinhed]

As in Dutch Bros. coffee? There are several locations in NorCal and Crawlorado.

 

[DT75FLH]

Before you replace the battery make sure it isn't the voltage regulator. The firewall VR have issues with failing apparently from the heat. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the po just put it on a charger and didn't tell you.

I'm pretty sure the bat is toast. I charged it up all nice with a 2 amp trickle charger, got it nice and full, then left it overnight in my 50* F garage and it dropped a bunch of voltage.

It has the mopar VR that lots of people swap in when the computer charging control system fails. Can I check one with a multi-meter or do I need to take it in to an auto parts place? If so, how do I home check it?

Checking the valves is on the menu. I did that on the cheap suzuki samurai I got that "needed an engine rebuild" and it's top speed loaded went from 55 to 65 mph!

I really need to get the factory service manual, anyone know the cheapest place to get them?

use Geno's Garage for the manual. I think its around $100. for the factory service manual.
All they deal in is cummins parts and they are quality at an affordable price point IMHO. they also have some good tech articles about the common issues to look for.

 

[chasespeed]

Even though the bolt pattern may match(6 bolt covers), each PTO is specific to each transmission/tcase, BUT, you MIGHT be able to call the mfr, and find a drive conversion/match...


Chase

 

[bondvagabond]

battery appears sorted out.

Well I decided to take my battery in to get it tested before buying a new one. Turns out it was in great shape, just 700cca instead of 1045cca. I would have to drive 2 hours from boonyville where I live to get a group 31 like I need.

Two weeks ago my wife had some issues with her negative battery cable, I put in a new one, but she just wanted a new battery for her peace of mind. Took her old one in, had it tested great shape, but 850cca instead of 1045cca like is recommended for my truck. What to do.....

I know, super ghetto dual battery setup. No fancy charge controller, different size batteries, different age batteries. Basically everything you are not supposed to do with dual batteries.

I got the dual battery tray from a guy who was parting out a motorhome at his garage sale. I talked him down from $10 to $1 on a 24gal fresh water tank, then got him to throw in the battery tray too Just fastened it down with sheet metal screws, after setting everything together to make sure it fit. I was able to support one of the corners with the radiator support.

Truck came with super fat welding cable battery cables. I kept those, just trimmed the ends and reconnected to new terminals. used marine style clamps on one pos and one neg terminal, then got two 12inch 2 gauge cables to connect the batteries together.

I then used an older ratchet strap to lash the batteries down. Cut off excess strap, didn't like the idea of 5000lb test webbing near the spinning motor parts.

Total cost<$20

The batteries may die quickly from trying to equalize each other, but I would be turning them in for core batteries otherwise, and I can still do that if I kill them. I am all set up for dual batteries now, so I can just throw two group 65 batteries in when they die, without having to mess with cables at all.

I now have 1550cca! mwah ha ha!

If this setup lasts a week, I will be very tempted to piss away the $200 I "saved" by battery salvage, on a winch I have my eye on. it's an old desert industries worm drive. 9000lbs, They are identical to a winch that pierce sells. A $150 kit turns them into a 12000lb winch. or $150 swaps from the 1.5hp motor to a 4.5hp motor:Wow1: The guy is asking 250obo, it has a new motor, new solenoid and new remote, and the cable looks okay. I am going to see if he will take 150, it's been for sale for a while. Wish me luck.