First impressions of bfg at kos.

[sarsabious]

again, your opinion

I agree with All Terrain and several others..... I've got 285/70/17 A/T KOs on my Tacoma right now and probably won't get another set. They're pretty good for highway commuting and mild trail stuff as long as there isn't any moisture around. Not very good on wet rocks and garbage in mud. I honestly think my Nitto Terra Grapplers were an overall better AT tire.

Regarding the side topic, just like the tires in question, the Jeeps of today aren't nearly what they were several years ago. I looked at a Rubicon and almost deficated in my pants when I saw the sticker was over $40k... especially considering Chrysler's track record with mediocre gas guzzlers.

 

[wreckdiver1321]

^ :lurk:

 

[redthies]

I agree with All Terrain and several others..... I've got 285/70/17 A/T KOs on my Tacoma right now and probably won't get another set. They're pretty good for highway commuting and mild trail stuff as long as there isn't any moisture around. Not very good on wet rocks and garbage in mud. I honestly think my Nitto Terra Grapplers were an overall better AT tire.

Regarding the side topic, just like the tires in question, the Jeeps of today aren't nearly what they were several years ago. I looked at a Rubicon and almost deficated in my pants when I saw the sticker was over $40k... especially considering Chrysler's track record with mediocre gas guzzlers.

It is all subjective apparently, as we are seeing every opinion from every angle here. I've never run a WORSE tire than the Terra-CRAPler, but that could be my vehicle, terrain and driving style. I'd pay double to get BFG ATs if the only two choices were them and the Nittos. My current favorite AT is the "new" Toyo AT ll. I have them on the Rubicon in the "extreme" size 285/75-17. They are quiet, grippy and with 15,000 on them (10,000 miles) they look like they are a day old.

As for the "side topic", what so you consider to be "several years ago"? I have owned Jeeps from pretty much every era and unless you are talking the CJ 5/7 days, you are off point. The JK Rubicon is a whole lot more vehicle than any YJ or TJ. (Again, my opinion).

 

[redthies]

I just put TA Ko's on last July

they seem to be a good overall performer, but I honestly hate them in the snow

my next set will be the KM2's

If you hate the AT KO in the snow, you'll be in a world of hurt with the KM2s! I would go as far as to call them unsafe in snow. If you want to go to a MT and use it in the snow I would highly recommend you look at Toyos. I drive plows and snowcats in winter and have to drive 40 miles from my house at 3:00 in the morning to get to work. When I had the Toyos on my F350 last winter I only used 4x4 two or three times. It was more than 12"s deep on those occasions.

 

[All-Terrain]

It is all subjective apparently, as we are seeing every opinion from every angle here. I've never run a WORSE tire than the Terra-CRAPler, but that could be my vehicle, terrain and driving style. I'd pay double to get BFG ATs if the only two choices were them and the Nittos. My current favorite AT is the "new" Toyo AT ll. I have them on the Rubicon in the "extreme" size 285/75-17. They are quiet, grippy and with 15,000 on them (10,000 miles) they look like they are a day old.

As for the "side topic", what so you consider to be "several years ago"? I have owned Jeeps from pretty much every era and unless you are talking the CJ 5/7 days, you are off point. The JK Rubicon is a whole lot more vehicle than any YJ or TJ. (Again, my opinion).

I haven't tried a Toyo AT II but have heard and read that they are really great tires. Wouldn't mind trying some.

Somebody mentioned that the BFG's come stock on the Ford Raptor's and Dodge Powerwagon's, therefore, "enough said." To me, that means nothing other than Ford and Dodge were given a deal by BFG on a large order of tires, in a mutually-beneficial marketing exercise, using the basically-ubiquitous BFG AT tire to further enhance the "rugged and ready" image of the Raptor and of the Powerwagon. Total BS, in my mind, as I wouldn't buy either of those trucks for what they are asking, new.

And there isn't a Jeep in the world worth $40k+. Absolutely not. You just can't justify it, not for the poor quality of the components.

 

[stioc]

As has been said before different people have different experiences due to many different factors. You had a bad experience with the BFG AT KOs, I get that and understand your point of view.

However, the point of the Raptor or the Powerwagon or the FJ Trail Teams was to show that when three different manufacturers went out looking for the most suitable tire for their top-of-the-line offroad edition trucks they all chose BFG AT - out of dozens out there that they could've selected. Unfortunately your simplistic view of "mutually-beneficial marketing" and how tires are selected for the limited production high-dollar cars/trucks shows a lack of understanding about what kind of design goals and R&D went into building these extremely capable factory trucks. Your comment about the "rugged and ready image" and calling the Raptor, PowerWagons and the Jeep Rubicon "BS" further proves that.

Let me ask you this, what tire do you consider to be the perfect AT tire and I bet I can find you internet discussions about the ill-merits of them.

 

[All-Terrain]

American trucks are only respected in America. The rest of the world has no interest in them, that I do understand. You just don't see Jeep Wranglers en masse in the 3rd world. The reasons are quality, durability, dependability, as well as good diesel engines.

I have lived in southern Africa, New Zealand, the Persian Gulf, Germany, and seven states in the US. Internationally, the coveted vehicles were never American. The quality just isn't there. What good is initial capability if it doesnt last past the warranty period?

 

[redthies]

American trucks are only respected in America. The rest of the world has no interest in them, that I do understand. You just don't see Jeep Wranglers en masse in the 3rd world. The reasons are quality, durability, dependability, as well as good diesel engines.

I have lived in southern Africa, New Zealand, the Persian Gulf, Germany, and seven states in the US. Internationally, the coveted vehicles were never American. The quality just isn't there. What good is initial capability if it doesnt last past the warranty period?

You need to join in this waste of space thread... We need more rational thinkers!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...t-Jeep-is-the-leader-in-4x4-overland-vehicles

 

[All-Terrain]

You need to join in this waste of space thread... We need more rational thinkers!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...t-Jeep-is-the-leader-in-4x4-overland-vehicles

Arrgggg.... just read the first page... can't continue... my eyes are burning!

 

[redthies]

I skipped up to about page 40(!!!) and suggested therapy for some, and was more or less called an idiot by those pumping out the drivel! Yikes!

 

[kojackJKU]

American trucks are only respected in America. The rest of the world has no interest in them, that I do understand. You just don't see Jeep Wranglers en masse in the 3rd world. The reasons are quality, durability, dependability, as well as good diesel engines.

I have lived in southern Africa, New Zealand, the Persian Gulf, Germany, and seven states in the US. Internationally, the coveted vehicles were never American. The quality just isn't there. What good is initial capability if it doesnt last past the warranty period?

Whats the good of a long lasting drivetrain so to speak if the rest of the vehicle rusts out in 2 years. (yes I am talking the world renowned Toyota) made from the most rust attractive components in the world.

I have not had a major issue with my JK unlimited and I have 140,000 MILES on it since mid 2011. What else in its price range has more capability in a new vehicle?

 

[All-Terrain]

Whats the good of a long lasting drivetrain so to speak if the rest of the vehicle rusts out in 2 years. (yes I am talking the world renowned Toyota) made from the most rust attractive components in the world.

I have not had a major issue with my JK unlimited and I have 140,000 MILES on it since mid 2011. What else in its price range has more capability in a new vehicle?

You're right, Jeeps are incredible. Keep buying them.

 

[FordGuy1]

Just because lots are sold doesn't mean they are the gold standard. The Ford Crown Vic has sold in the thousands, maybe millions, and it isn't the gold standard for anything except maybe overpriced piles of crap. Plenty of poor quality items are sold in large quantities. How many Korean death traps (aka Kia's) are on US roads now? Sometimes "good enough" is better than "best" when it's cheap enough, to some people...

PS. Lots of Jeep Wranglers out there too.....

Actually it could easily be said the Crown Vic is the gold standard, the only vehicle the has been durable enough to be used as a taxi, cop car, hwy patrol, livery etc.. They roll 350k all day long, then they get sold to the kids and keep going....bad comparison. :smiley_drive:

 

[All-Terrain]

Actually it could easily be said the Crown Vic is the gold standard, the only vehicle the has been durable enough to be used as a taxi, cop car, hwy patrol, livery etc.. They roll 350k all day long, then they get sold to the kids and keep going....bad comparison. :smiley_drive:

Seeing that you're a Ford guy, you'll never be convinced otherwise.... but the Crown Vic is a huge beast, which is a big reason for its popularity. It holds lots of equipment. It's heavy and grossly fuel-inefficient. The newer Impala's have become popular PD vehicles because they are FWD and thus safer for cops who can't drive a RWD car with a V8 with any real skill. Once that big end gets away from you on a Crown Vic, if you're not ready for it, you'll never get it back and you're going for a spin. Keep in mind that not every car manufacturer gets to bid on these government procurement contracts.... because those contracts stipulate that the vehicles must be manufactured in the US, which effectively excludes anything other than Chevy, Dodge, Ford, etc --- that's the idea, for American government organizations to support American manufacturing. Great idea... but why not support high-quality manufacturing, and thus force American manufacturers to up their ante. Instead of competing against the entire car manufacturing market, they only have to compete against two or three other companies.

By the way, you don't believe that any old Crown Vic off the showroom floor will run to 350k miles with only oil changes and tires, do you?

Crown Vic's are just like Jeeps. They are cars for sheeple (that's "sheep" + "people", by the way).

It's a Fix-Or-Repair-Daily, but who cares, it was built in Detroit so it must be a great car, right?

 

[kojackJKU]

Ha ha ....WOW all terrain, you dearailed this thread about my thoughts on the AT. good for you. now, please take whatever you like to drive, and go drive. thanks!