FJ Cruiser

[BajaTaco]

OK, until this vehicle gets its own forum section, I'll put the discussion here.

I'm sure many of you may have seen the new pictures and info coming from recent coverage at the SEMA show 2005. They had a blue FJ cruiser at the show outfitted with some key things that most serious 4wd enthusiasts definitely took note of:

1. 33" Tires w/beadlock wheels (and they don't look like 17" either!)
2. Donahoe coilovers (front)
3. ARB Bull bar
4. Warn Winch(es)
5. ARB Front air locker
6. Vertical spare tire mount (had been slanted)
7. Jerry can mount
8. Functional roof rack with lights and recovery equip.
9. On-board air (CO2 tank + ARB compressor)

Seeing the FJC in this way has certainly increased my attraction to the vehicle, and increased my interest considering it's potential as a viable (light) expedition-style vehicle. The specifications for the drivetrain on the FJC appear to be pretty much identical to the new Tacoma truck (see end of post). This car will not have the greatest fuel economy which is a shame considering the current state of affairs and the availability of strong diesel engines elsewhere in the world, and the new popularity of biodiesel here in the U.S.

Fuel economy aside, the car seems to have a very solid foundation and capability in stock form, and will surely be quite capable on the trail with the addition of some key aftermarket (or possibly factory?) options. It is looking to me like the FJC is pretty much going to hit the ground running, with a large aftermarket already in development, and available quickly after its introduction to the public market. This appeals to me. The thought of having something fresh and fun from Toyota is also very appealing to me. One of the biggest factors is having the Toyota reliability in a new vehicle that is actually trail-worthy. That could end up being the sole reason for getting one (for me anyway). My biggest concerns at this point are the following:

• Payload is only 1,000 lbs. As I have said before, this is often a trade-off for hard-body, wagon type 4wds whereby so much payload is used for extra sheetmetal, steel, glass, and various materials that contribute a great deal to GVW.
• Short wheelbase. It seems to me that the potential for making a viable sleeping quarters for two people in this vehicle is pretty much out of the question. If the front passenger seat was removed, I'm sure it would do ok for a single person. This leaves the option of a roof tent, which I might just have to consider if I were to get serious about buying an FJC. [Edit: After inspecting the FJ in person, I discovered it will indeed be possible to sleep inside the vehcile if the rear seats are removed and a platform is constructed.]
• Related to the above - I wonder if there would be any room below for a larger fuel tank, or an auxiliary tank. The jerry can is nice, but it would be good to keep the weight off of the back of the car and have more reserve than 5 gallons. [Edit: After inspecting the FJ in person, I discovered there is plenty of room for an auxiliary fuel tank just behind the rear axle, under the body.]
• Visibility. It seems to me that this car has poor visibility for the driver, but until I get inside and try it out I won't know for sure. [Edit: After inspecting the FJ in person, and being used to driving a truck with a camper shell and tinted windows, the use of the FJ's ample side mirrors (augmented with a couple of small circular fish-eye mirrors) makes this a non-issue for me. I would say that forward visibility over the hood is bit less than desireable.]

I really like the styling of this car after all. Now that I can see it with the goodies on it, it looks much better to me (as do most any stock 4wds, with some exceptions). Related to my concerns above, I may just have to wait and build my own Toyota conglomeration one of these days. I would use the front half of the FJC, stretch the back half and fit it with a camper box and long-range fuel tanks along with all of the expedition goodies, and plop a diesel engine in it. Sigh...

OK, since that won't happen, maybe when the time comes, I'll just get an FJC and put a tent on the roof and call it good. :smilies27 It just looks too fun to pass up.


*********************
Thanks to mountainpete for providing us with this info:

From Truck Trend Magazine...

2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser

General
Location of final assembly Tahara, Japan
Body style 2-door, 5-pass SUV
EPA size class Light truck (midsize SUV)
Drivetrain layout Front engine, 4WD
Airbags Dual front, side, head
Powertrain
Engine type 90° V-6, alum block/heads
Bore x stroke, in 3.70 x 3.74
Displacement, ci/L 241/4.0
Compression ratio 10.0:1
Valve gear DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
Fuel induction Multipoint
SAE horsepower, hp @ rpm 245 @ 5200
SAE torque, lb-ft @ rpm 282 @ 3800
Transmission type Six-speed manual
1st 4.17:1
2nd 2.19:1
3rd 1.49:1
4th 1.19:1
5th 1.00:1
6th 0.85:1
Reverse 3.61:1
Axle ratio 3.73:1
Final-drive ratio 3.17:1
Low-range ratio 2.57:1
Crawl ratio (1st x axle gears x low) 40:1
Recommended fuel Premium unleaded
Dimensions/Capacities
Wheelbase, in 105.9
Length, in 177.6
Width, in 74.6
Height, in 70.9
Ground clearance, in 9.6
Base curb weight, lb 3800 (est)
Payload capacity, lb 1000 (est)
GVWR, lb 5000
GCWR, lb 8800
Towing capacity, lb 5000
Fuel capacity, gal 20.0
Chassis
Suspension, f/r IFS, coil spring/solid axle, four-link, coil spring
Steering type Power-assist rack-and-pinion
Ratio 15.6:1
Wheels 17.0x7 cast aluminum
Tires 265/70R17 BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A
Load rating C
Speed rating 121/118
Price
Base price $22,000 (est)
Fully optioned price $27,000 (est)

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

SIGH . . .

Thanks for the information, Chris.

As a long-time Land Cruiser person, I just don't know what to make of this thing, even now. My personal, highly subjective, totally prejudiced yardstick for a vehicle such as this is whether it appears to have been designed for a purpose that will attract its own market, or a market that will attract its own purpose.

Purpose-derived designs: Land Rover Series vehicles and Defenders, Land Cruiser 40, 45, 55, 60, 75, 78, and 80s, the original Chevy Suburban, pickups with over-six-foot beds, Jeep Wranglers and CJs, etc.

Market-derived: Hummer H2 and H3, Ford Explorer, ad nauseum. The current Land Cruiser sits on the edge, with its independent front suspension installed as a sop to the North American market, but at least it's still a Land Cruiser in other respects.

Try as I might, I can't picture the FJ Cruiser in anything but the market-driven category. That doesn't mean it won't be competent, it just means its competency appears to be heavily compromised in favor of style. If that makes sense. I can picture Toyota dealers selling cute accessories for the FJ like they do for Scions. Lighted cup holders, anyone? (I did not make that up.)

How I wish Toyota had introduced a competitor to Jeep's current brilliant Rubicon, with straight axles, lockers, and the awesome three-liter turbodiesel engine already available in Hiluxes elsewhere.

Sorry, this sounds like complete griping. I guess I hold Toyota to a very high standard. Feel free to flame me . . .

 

[BajaTaco]

You certainly won't be getting any flames from me. I think quite a lot of 4wd Toyota fans feel the way you do and for good reason. I even had my own "sigh" in the previous post, and am also disappointed about the diesel situation.

Now that I have used the newer Toyota IFS for my particular type of use with good success over many years, I am not so quick to cry for the solid front axle like I used to be. I am happy with a well designed, strong IFS - probably as happy as I could be with a SFA. Although I think it is agreed that anyone who likes to do very technical trail work will prefer the SFA (myself included). So I hope that Toyota realizes that and doesn't squelch the concept altogether when they think about upcoming models. It's great that ARB is making a front locker for the new FJC, but the fact of the matter is that the vulnerability of the IFS is still there. The SFA is the smarter choice.

So what can we do about it?

It appears that Toyota obviously has its own ideas about what will sell and what won't here in the US. (market driven as you mentioned). What I have decided to do (try not to roll your eyes) is foster the market that will foster the Toyota we want... here in the U.S.A. And this forum is a good example. And so is your website, and Scott's website, and Nathan's website, and eveyone else who is promoting and encouraging the type of exploration/adventure culture that we want to see here, that is so prominent in other countries. It is the dawning of a new age for 4wd here in the U.S. - before you know it, we will be subscribing to our own local version of Australia 4wd Monthly (American 4wd Monthly perhaps?) loaded with expedition style vehicles and trip reports. Scott taking his truck to SEMA and networking there is a fantastic aid in making this sort of thing happen. I think the ball has begun to roll and will pick up speed. Let's keep it rolling

One thing I forgot to mention, that I noticed from the photos of the FJC. It appears that there is quite a bit of space in front of the battery, which leads me to believe there might be room to turn that battery 90 degrees, scoot it over, and mount another along side of it.

 

[kcowyo]

What I have decided to do (try not to roll your eyes) is foster the market that will foster the Toyota we want... here in the U.S.A. And this forum is a good example. And so is your website, and Scott's website, and Nathan's website, and eveyone else who is promoting and encouraging the type of exploration/adventure culture that we want to see here, that is so prominent in other countries. It is the dawning of a new age for 4wd here in the U.S. - before you know it, we will be subscribing to our own local version of Australia 4wd Monthly (American 4wd Monthly perhaps?) loaded with expedition style vehicles and trip reports. Scott taking his truck to SEMA and networking there is a fantastic aid in making this sort of thing happen. I think the ball has begun to roll and will pick up speed. Let's keep it rolling

[not hijack -just a detour]

...and don't be too modest Chris, your site and truck have inspired tons of 'Yota truck owners. I can't recall how many posts I see on other boards who've built their Toyota truck with cues taken from what you've done with your BajaTaco. You should be proud for helping show people what is possible and the benefits they could possibly reap by thinking beyond 40" Boggers and Chrome Moly inners & outers. :tipmyhat:

I agree that Scott's passion and relentless drive to promote expedition travel will help push this segment of 4 wheeling to the next level. My hope is that this type of offroad travel will be seen as more environmentally friendly than rockcrawling and mudbogging. Cultural Tourism is hot, hot right now and the benifits of people seeing that responsible offroad vehicle travel and experience filled vacations can co-exist with minimal impact to the environment, is huge. Just imagine being at the forefront of offroad travel enthusiasts and environmentalists working and playing together. Mind boggling...

...oh, and sorry, but I think the new FJ is uglier than a bowling shoe! :smilies27

 

[riverguide]

well there is no question that Chris' truck has influenced lots of ppl with toyotas, its simply a sweet truck, well thought out.

As far as this fjc goes...I don't know either but I might not know for a lil while. It's a good lookin truck, I don't care about the solid front axle and at the moment i'm not married so single sleeping arrangments are ok. I am giving this truck a good chance in the market whether for off roading, mall cruisers or soccer moms, I think toyota has a good start here. That being said, If the top came off, had a roll cage, had a solid front axle...lil bit different window set up...i'd really like it. The future will only tell.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Very well put, Chris. And you are perfectly correct. After all, it was just that kind of influence that coerced Toyota into installing such things as locking differentials in U.S.-market trucks. So we can all make an emergency escape from that "muddy road" they warn us about on the door sticker . . .

I'd love to see a factory package for the Tacoma that included Hi-Lift-jackable front and rear bumpers, rocker protection, a winch, and perhaps an air compressor. In the meatime those interested in such things will just have to turn to Expedition Portal.

Incidentally, I hear rumors that the next Tundra will have a Powerwagonesque option including big (like really big) tires and a lift. We'll see . . .

 

[Wanderlusty]

Chris. . .

If you are even THINKING of turning BAJATACO into BAJAFJC. . .I am calling DIBS on the TACO!!!

For me, what you are willing to sacrifice (sleeping for 2 inside) is what I am wanting to gain. Heck, at that, I have a nice fairly low miles Wrangler on 33's if you REALLY want a change of pace!

Personally, I find the FJC intriguing, but kind of like riverguide said. . .the window configuration is odd. Could use a removable top . . . though as for the front IFS vs. Solid. . .you made a good point that for light expedition, the IFS is pretty decent. A solid axle WOULD be nice, though.

I love this country, but am frustrated by what popular flavors, corporate perception and gov't regs keep off of our shores. . . oh well.

 

[BajaTaco]

Thanks guys

...oh, and sorry, but I think the new FJ is uglier than a bowling shoe! :smilies27

:xxrotflma

Fatman, I appreciate your offer! However... I plan to utilize the BajaTaco until I no longer trust it on long trips. And if Jonathans FJ40 is any indication of that potential, it could take a very long time to reach that point. Having said that, I am still keeping a watchful eye on the emerging 4wd market, as there is the possibility that I may do another expedition vehicle project before the BajaTaco expires.

 

[flyingwil]

My 2 Cents Worth

I personally like it. I agree with many point Chris made in the first post. Based up what Scott wrote about talking to Mark, the project manager of the FJ Cruiser. Scott Wrote:

Update 11/3

I had the chance to talk with Mark, the project manager of the FJ Cruiser. Here are a few quick details:

1. No mass marketing. Mostly on the trail promotion, Moab, the Rubicon, etc.
2. Over 60 companies showed up for the measuring session. Bumpers, suspension, etc. will be available.
3. They are shooting (not confirmed) for a factory trail package which will include 33" tires, special gearing and additional protection
4. The designed the truck to support aftermarket equipment installation, including looms to the GPS pocket, rack for light, channels in the frame, etc.
5. A 6-speed manual will be available with a full time transfer case. It will have a center differential lock.
6. January production start, in dealers in March. Pricing will be set in late December to allow for dealer pre-ordering.

Also Based on photos from 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine http://www.4wdtoyotaowner.com/FJCruiser.html

All photos from 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine ( http://www.4wdtoyotaowner.com/FJCruiser.html ) it seems like what Scott was told seems true.

I think many of the options seem to be from input of curent 4WD toyota owners. Seems pretty reasonable to me and quite capable right out the door of the factory. (Speaking of does anyone know what plant will be building these?)

Also it looks like Toyota is setting up for the aftermarket crowd as well based upon the pics from SEMA. ARB, DR, and who knows who esle, all seem to be involved in this FJ, meaning aftermarket upgrades soon after vehicle delivery. I think that is also a plus, I watched many '05 Taco owners struggle with Tire/Wheel selection to Coilover modifications over on the TTORA board, Most had to sit around and wait, where it looks like the FJ, you should be able to time them all to arrive with in the same week.

Plus for the price, it seems great (if they Keep that Price) for what you get out the door. Aside from the payload issue, seems like a pretty good base to start up on IMO.

WIL

 

[Wanderlusty]

Fatman, I appreciate your offer! However... I plan to utilize the BajaTaco until I no longer trust it on long trips. And if Jonathans FJ40 is any indication of that potential, it could take a very long time to reach that point. Having said that, I am still keeping a watchful eye on the emerging 4wd market, as there is the possibility that I may do another expedition vehicle project before the BajaTaco expires.

Somehow I kinda figured that would be the case!

Really though, with some doing, I think I can make the Wrangler a pretty decent vehicle. Because of it's size, I think that some concessions will have to be made on my part. I may have to tug a trailer along in the long run.

What I am running into now is that when I bought it, it was just the wife and I, but with a kid on the way, while I don't plan on dragging them into the outback as an infant, I remember travelling early and often when I was little, and plan on returning the favor by taking MY child along. So if I take the kid along, then the interior storage in the Wrangler becomes practically nonexistant.

Trailers and roof racks should do the trick, but I was hoping to keep it more compact than that. . .then again, I don't really know if travelling with 3 or more CAN be done compactly. . .

OBTW. . . to bring it back on topic. . . the FJC looks really intriguing, aside from the wierd window config.

 

[Scott Brady]

I am going to have a chance to drive one (and maybe even the Mega-Cruiser) in CA early next year.

The FJ Cruiser has a few really important things going for it:

1. Toyota reliability
2. Simple, functional interior
3. Immediate aftermarket support
4. Great motor
5. 6-speed manual option
6. Plans for an off-road package, with 33's, etc.
7. Strong roof for mounting tents, etc.
8. An excellent driving position and ergonomics. It feels very open from the drivers seat.

 

[dejablu311]

I am no fan of the vehicle in stock form but i have to say, the SEMA version looked great. I sat in it as well and like scott said i could see myself driving it for days at a time. To me, the biggest problem for choosing this vehicle for long excusions would be the sleeping arrangements. The only real option is putting a tent on the roof. While the roof maybe strong enough it would seem to be alot of weight up top for a short wheelbase vehicle. Not to mention 1000lbs is not much to work with.

 

[datrupr]

You know, I could see myself in one, but it also has that "cute" factor that the women like. thus, if I got one I could see my wife commandeering it before I had the chance to enjoy it.

 

[BajaTaco]

... To me, the biggest problem for choosing this vehicle for long excusions would be the sleeping arrangements. The only real option is putting a tent on the roof. While the roof maybe strong enough it would seem to be alot of weight up top for a short wheelbase vehicle. Not to mention 1000lbs is not much to work with.

Yep. You are thinking along the same lines as I am. Those are definitely two major considerations for me, and could ultimately result in my choice of the Tacoma (again) much like I chose the Tacoma over the 4Runner last time.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I see a lot of gripes about sleeping arrangements. Doesn't anybody toss a tent on the ground anymore? I'm sure if I tried I could sleep in my LC, but I have tents for that.
The SEMA version looks pretty sweet, I wouldn't mind having one, but not if it becomes the next H2 and everyone is driving one.