wmflyfisher
Observer
X2, cbioffroadfab.com Steve is a heck of a guy and will build you anything. His prices are very reasonable and hes well known in the Taco bumper fab business. Good luck and post pics when you get one!!
Front bumper alternatives?
- Thread starter Martinjmpr
- Start date
T-17
I'm happy with the T-17 TJM I purchased through Steve at Sonoran Steel for our 2004 Tacoma. I also have a T-17 on my 1987 4runner. While the two bumpers look alike they are significantly different. Older T-17's are thinner and lighter and the "ears" that extend back towards the front tires bolt on. New T-17s, at least for the Tacomas, are thicker and heavier (but still lighter than many other bumpers) and the ears are part of the complete bumper. While I liked the light weight of the older bumper on the 4runner, overall I think the new bumper is better. I would not use a high lift on the ear, but I have worked a high lift into the vent holes under the front channel. I also think that you could jack via the opening for the winch cable if you wanted. The problem being that it is a high point and centrally located. With a 48" hi-lift you might not get as much lift as you'd want. I prefer to use the hi-lift on my sliders or on the rear bumper. I actually get the best lift with one of the adapters allowing the hi-lift to attach to a wheel - no suspension sag.
If you mount a Warn M8000 the bumper accepts it well, but the newer models don't have the access hole for the clutch engagement of the winch as perfectly positioned as the old bumpers. I find it easy to reach up and behind to get access to the lever, but if you were stuck to the frame in mud that might be a bother.
If you decide to go for the T-17 make sure you get the newer model with the one-piece construction rather than the bolt on ears, unless you prefer the extra light weight of the older style.
Howard L. Snell
I'm happy with the T-17 TJM I purchased through Steve at Sonoran Steel for our 2004 Tacoma. I also have a T-17 on my 1987 4runner. While the two bumpers look alike they are significantly different. Older T-17's are thinner and lighter and the "ears" that extend back towards the front tires bolt on. New T-17s, at least for the Tacomas, are thicker and heavier (but still lighter than many other bumpers) and the ears are part of the complete bumper. While I liked the light weight of the older bumper on the 4runner, overall I think the new bumper is better. I would not use a high lift on the ear, but I have worked a high lift into the vent holes under the front channel. I also think that you could jack via the opening for the winch cable if you wanted. The problem being that it is a high point and centrally located. With a 48" hi-lift you might not get as much lift as you'd want. I prefer to use the hi-lift on my sliders or on the rear bumper. I actually get the best lift with one of the adapters allowing the hi-lift to attach to a wheel - no suspension sag.
If you mount a Warn M8000 the bumper accepts it well, but the newer models don't have the access hole for the clutch engagement of the winch as perfectly positioned as the old bumpers. I find it easy to reach up and behind to get access to the lever, but if you were stuck to the frame in mud that might be a bother.
If you decide to go for the T-17 make sure you get the newer model with the one-piece construction rather than the bolt on ears, unless you prefer the extra light weight of the older style.
Howard L. Snell
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Thanks for all the input. I'm very seriously considering that one. Not sure when I'll do it but I just sold my motorcycle 
so I do have a little extra cash on hand...
Question (if you know): What is the total weight of the T-17 compared to all the parts it replaces? IOW, not just the bumper but the plastic valance panel and/or any other parts that get replaced? I'm trying to get some idea of how much total weight will be added. Obviously, I would like the total additional weight to be as little as possible, both for purposes of economy, performance, and being nice to my front suspension (which is still stock.)
Also, about how much weight does the winch add to the bumper setup? I'm actually thinking a 2" reciever with a removable winch might be a good idea. Not only could I put the winch on either the front or the rear, but I could take it off when I don't need it, saving additional weight.
so I do have a little extra cash on hand...Question (if you know): What is the total weight of the T-17 compared to all the parts it replaces? IOW, not just the bumper but the plastic valance panel and/or any other parts that get replaced? I'm trying to get some idea of how much total weight will be added. Obviously, I would like the total additional weight to be as little as possible, both for purposes of economy, performance, and being nice to my front suspension (which is still stock.)
Also, about how much weight does the winch add to the bumper setup? I'm actually thinking a 2" reciever with a removable winch might be a good idea. Not only could I put the winch on either the front or the rear, but I could take it off when I don't need it, saving additional weight.
Poor Memory? Mass of T-17
I actually weighed my new style T-17 out of the box, wrote it down and lost the scrap of paper....
If I remember correctly the bumper weighed 75 pounds (again, IF I remember correctly). The TJM USA guys could probably give you an exact weight. Their phone number is on the website. What I don't remember is if that 75 pounds included the mounting plates or not - they could add another 10 pounds or so.
I just ran out to the garage and weighed the stock front bumper and crossbar. They weigh 26 pounds. So if my memory is any good the increase is about 50 to 60 pounds.
Look for Scott's post about getting an M8000 below 50 pounds. Mine is about 50 pounds, but I'm running 160 feet of 3/8 Amsteel Blue rather than 100 feet so that could add a couple of pounds.
Installing my T-17 and M8000 after removing the stock bumper caused about a 5/8 to 3/4 drop at the center of the skid plate. However, I'm running the Tundra coils and 255/85/16s so I still have about 13" to 13.5" clearance there (12.5 with a Maggiolina on the cab). I think it could cause more sag and perhaps noticeable impact on your ride if you were running stock front suspension. Just the bumper could be OK under that configuration.
Added in edit: I just re-read your original message and noticed that you're looking for recovery points also. The straight T-17 has none. However, Steve at Sonora Steel sells some great ones that mount below the bumper at the frame. Chuck Hathcock runs those and they look really solid. Steve will also modify the mounting plates that come with the T-17 to make the recovery points integral in the plates. Both of those solutions look very strong but add some weight. I found that I could leave the stock forged hooks in place but not the tow eye (while it fits access is prevented by the mounting plate). SO I'm running the hooks on each side. This is nowhere near as handy as real recovery points that keep a shackle captive but they will work with a little attention (I've winched to them several times on our 4runner with ease - haven't used them yet on the Tacoms which when loaded is probably 1,000 pounds heavier).
Howard L. Snell
I actually weighed my new style T-17 out of the box, wrote it down and lost the scrap of paper....
If I remember correctly the bumper weighed 75 pounds (again, IF I remember correctly). The TJM USA guys could probably give you an exact weight. Their phone number is on the website. What I don't remember is if that 75 pounds included the mounting plates or not - they could add another 10 pounds or so.
I just ran out to the garage and weighed the stock front bumper and crossbar. They weigh 26 pounds. So if my memory is any good the increase is about 50 to 60 pounds.
Look for Scott's post about getting an M8000 below 50 pounds. Mine is about 50 pounds, but I'm running 160 feet of 3/8 Amsteel Blue rather than 100 feet so that could add a couple of pounds.
Installing my T-17 and M8000 after removing the stock bumper caused about a 5/8 to 3/4 drop at the center of the skid plate. However, I'm running the Tundra coils and 255/85/16s so I still have about 13" to 13.5" clearance there (12.5 with a Maggiolina on the cab). I think it could cause more sag and perhaps noticeable impact on your ride if you were running stock front suspension. Just the bumper could be OK under that configuration.
Added in edit: I just re-read your original message and noticed that you're looking for recovery points also. The straight T-17 has none. However, Steve at Sonora Steel sells some great ones that mount below the bumper at the frame. Chuck Hathcock runs those and they look really solid. Steve will also modify the mounting plates that come with the T-17 to make the recovery points integral in the plates. Both of those solutions look very strong but add some weight. I found that I could leave the stock forged hooks in place but not the tow eye (while it fits access is prevented by the mounting plate). SO I'm running the hooks on each side. This is nowhere near as handy as real recovery points that keep a shackle captive but they will work with a little attention (I've winched to them several times on our 4runner with ease - haven't used them yet on the Tacoms which when loaded is probably 1,000 pounds heavier).
Howard L. Snell
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bigwapitijohnny
Adventurer
I must recommend Armorology
Jed Hemming is an excellent fabricator and a great guy also...
Regards,
BWJ
Jed Hemming is an excellent fabricator and a great guy also...
Regards,
BWJ
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Johnny: I agree the stuff from Armorology is gorgeous. Offhand, do you know what your bumper weighs?
bigwapitijohnny
Adventurer
Both front and rear are about 100 pounds each...
Regards,
BWJ
Regards,
BWJ