Front hub help

[HazMan]

I took my Canter to Stockton Beach today to see how she goes in the sand. I deliberately didn't drop the tyre pressures straight away as I wanted to see how far I'd make it. Needles to say as the access track was very chopped up we ground to a halt on the first rise.

Just as we were slowing down and I was applying power to try to drive on, there was a loud knock sound and the truck stopped in the sand. It almost felt like a car jumping out of gear. I dropped the pressures and drove out but this knock and sound happened a couple more times as we struggled and got stopped by the soft sand on the beach front.

I have just had a front end alignment done with camber bearings put in and I can't help wondering if they put the hubs together correctly.

I tried locking the hubs and turning the drive shaft ...... Funny thing is it spins one way freely but if I spin the drive shaft the other way the hubs lock up......?

Is that normal ?

Can I pull the hubs apart and check easily ?



Any help appreciated,

Sean

 

[gait]

turning drive shaft one way freely and locking the other way is not normal.

To replace the camber kit (eccentric king pin bearing holder) I had to take hub to pieces and remove the half shaft.

They are "easy" to dismantle. Don't even need to remove the wheel. The workshop manual is useful.

Typical problem is when the springs are assembled wrong way round. There are two springs, one either side of the slidey bit that engages/disengages. Turning the lock/unlock changes the gap between the slidey bit and the lock/unlock rotating thingo. So when the outside spring is compressed more than the inner the slidey bit moves in, and vice versa. The two springs are different so its important which one is inserted first on assembly. And sorry, I can't find where I wrote it down - I'll keep looking - something along the lines of "the long one first" but my memory is fading.

Other important bit is that the slidey bit (the gear) slides freely. Recollection is there's a centre ring on the inside that can become bent if someone has forced mis-assembly. There's also a retainer on the outside that can be bent. The two springs are "shift spring" is outside of the gear, "return spring" inside of the gear.

PS there's a snap ring (circlip in my language) that holds everything in when lock/unlock knob is removed, but be prepared to catch bits if its been misassembled.

 

[Aussie Iron]

I tried locking the hubs and turning the drive shaft ...... Funny thing is it spins one way freely but if I spin the drive shaft the other way the hubs lock up......

Is that normal ?


Can I pull the hubs apart and check easily ?



Any help appreciated,

Sean

Not normal. With both hubs locked you should not be able to turn the drive shaft either way (there will be a bit of slack either way). Wheels on the ground,Transfer case in 2wd. Yes you can undo the outer six phillip head screws on the hub and slip that section out. Unless they pulled the hub totally to pieces there shouldn't be a problem.

Dan.

 

[HazMan]

turning drive shaft one way freely and locking the other way is not normal.

To replace the camber kit (eccentric king pin bearing holder) I had to take hub to pieces and remove the half shaft.

They are "easy" to dismantle. Don't even need to remove the wheel. The workshop manual is useful.

Typical problem is when the springs are assembled wrong way round. There are two springs, one either side of the slidey bit that engages/disengages. Turning the lock/unlock changes the gap between the slidey bit and the lock/unlock rotating thingo. So when the outside spring is compressed more than the inner the slidey bit moves in, and vice versa. The two springs are different so its important which one is inserted first on assembly. And sorry, I can't find where I wrote it down - I'll keep looking - something along the lines of "the long one first" but my memory is fading.

Other important bit is that the slidey bit (the gear) slides freely. Recollection is there's a centre ring on the inside that can become bent if someone has forced mis-assembly. There's also a retainer on the outside that can be bent. The two springs are "shift spring" is outside of the gear, "return spring" inside of the gear.

PS there's a snap ring (circlip in my language) that holds everything in when lock/unlock knob is removed, but be prepared to catch bits if its been misassembled.

Thanks,

That's what I remembered reading on here, but do you think I could find it when I was looking........ I'll ring the steering place tomorrow and gauge their enthusiasm for fixing the problem.

Also the truck use to have very strong brakes, now it's mediocre and pulls slightly to the left. Could this be just shoe adjustment or failure to bleed the brakes properly if they pulled them off?


Sean

 

[gait]

there would have been no need to bleed the brakes, the back plate for the drums can be held out of the way with "a bit of string". But they would have needed adjusting. May also be a bit of oil or grease if they were really clumsy. If you cure the pull to the left I'd like to know how, I need to take mine apart for similar problem - but they've always been that way ....

 

[HazMan]

I'm just a bit disappointed after spending big money on the front end to set it up properly and having these little problems....

This is my first 4X4 and my first vehicle with drum brakes, so it's all a big learning curve for me.

Also, if someone could point me in the right direction for a workshop manual it would be a great help. (I would then have more confidence to take things apart and learn/check for myself.)

Thank heavens for this forum and it's "Brains Trust"

Sean

 

[engineer]

welcome!!Nice truck Sean, What size are your tyres?

 

[HazMan]

Thanks Engineer, I am learning everything as I go (like welding!) and only doing things as finances permit (very low budget) but I am enjoying the process and looking forward to taking the family on many great adventures.

The tyres are Hankook 37x12.5x17

Sean

 

[HazMan]

Well today I pulled the Fee/Lock covers off as Dan suggested with the 6 x Phillips head screws.

I pulled off both sides and disassembled the drivers side as I heard the knock sound from this side.

Before dis-assembly (Drivers side) I pushed the locking gear in with my fingers and it did not want to freely engage. I laid out all the parts in the order they cam out and went to the passenger side where the locking gear engaged well when pushed with my fingers. After placing all those parts out in a line, both sides looked to be installed with the springs in the same order but the drivers side would not engage freely.

I inspected all parts on the drivers side...all looked undamaged.

I installed the springs the other way around... I figured this was wrong, as with the thinner spring behind the locking gear there was not enough pressure/force to push the locking gear off the engaging spline when in "Free" mode. (if that makes sense)

After much installing and pushing/prodding I finally got it all back together in the same order they had assembled it.... BUT NOW IT WORKS.

I tried locking the hubs and spinning the drive shaft.... Now it locks up straight away in both directions. :clapsmile


If nothing else, I now know how the locking assembly works.


Thanks for the advice,

Sean


P.S. I will double check with the workshop manual, now I have a lead on obtaining one. Thank you

 

[Aussie Iron]

Hopefully all is good then.

Dan.

 

[SkiFreak]

After much installing and pushing/prodding I finally got it all back together in the same order they had assembled it.... BUT NOW IT WORKS.

It always concerns me if I change nothing but it fixes a problem.

 

[Alastair D(Aus)]

It always concerns me if I change nothing but it fixes a problem.

But you are always tempted to change something even if there is no problem !!!!!!!!!!:bike_rider:

 

[HazMan]

Well, the problem was not fixed.....

Recently when in soft sand and powering to get up a small, soft dune the same thing happened. I noticable bang/thud (coming from the drivers side) and the truck comes to a hault as the front wheels stop driving.

I reversed and drove forward and up the same dune fine. The circlip, springs and locking ring all appear to be fine. What I am thinking is maybe the springs have lost their tension and are letting the locking ring pop out under heavy load. Does that sound feasable?

If so, I will order some new hub internals and see how it goes.

Any other ideas...?


Sean

 

[Alastair D(Aus)]

Sean,
I know you said you checked and all parts were undamaged. Check again and look for any burr or flattening on the leading edge of the splines. It does not take much to stop them engaging. It sounds like they are not getting fully engaged and when you put real stress on them they disengage. The old trick used when setting up a differential is to put bluing on the teeth and then see where they rub. If you clean the splines and use a blue felt tip pen to mark them, you should be able to see how far they engage. Fiddly but may clarify the situation. Look for anything that will stop the splines to fully mesh.

Is there a locating lug somewhere? On my old Landcruiser hubs it is possible to put the spring in so that it tends to rotate a bit before it tensions. If it is correct there is no free play and the spring cannot rotate.

Have not yet played with my Isuzu hubs. The day will come as I have a split in the rubber swivel boot which will have to be replaced before I go somewhere dirty.

 

[HazMan]

Thanks Alastair.

I'll take another look at it tomorrow.