Problem in snow is a typical non-selectable locker like a Detroit which normally unlocks for turns, cannot sense the turn in a low traction snow environment. Put it in front, you get tight effect, put it in rear, you get loose effect. E-locker or ARB is preferred.
Front or Rear locker, but not both
- Thread starter Bravo8Delta
- Start date
Problem in snow is a typical non-selectable locker like a Detroit which normally unlocks for turns, cannot sense the turn in a low traction snow environment. Put it in front, you get tight effect, put it in rear, you get loose effect. E-locker or ARB is preferred.
Smileyshaun
Observer
back only will cause a more fishtailing .... aka more fun !!!!!.
Another thing to think about if you're going to be putting a locker in the front is it's going to cause a ton more strain on your axle shafts and axle shaft joints so depending on how you go 4-wheeling keep in mind you might need an upgrade there too soon
jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
Lol. Thanks for the info yall. I see a shovel and a set of Max Traks in my future. Hope I didn't derail the thread too bad!
Bravo8Delta
Member
Thanks for all the input. Doing both front and rear is just out of the question right now. I will lock the front if I do an axle swap later.
I have been known to use brute force and wheel spin to get over obstacles. Watching these overlanding videos on the youtubes has really made me want to change my driving style and become more conscious about my impact on the trail. I have a lot to learn about off roading.
Thanks again
I have been known to use brute force and wheel spin to get over obstacles. Watching these overlanding videos on the youtubes has really made me want to change my driving style and become more conscious about my impact on the trail. I have a lot to learn about off roading.
Thanks again
jadmt
ignore button user
brute force and wheel spin often results in breakage. proper lines and and proper tire inflation ie air down will do wonders getting over obstacles and even deep snow.
jadmt
ignore button user
I just sold a set of Treds for dirt cheap,a guy from Superior bought them. Sounds like you guys got dumped on down south.
jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
On man...did you have them on CL? I would have snatched them up! Yup, we had 30 inches of snow in Hamilton this week. Shovel, shovel, shovel.
I don't have lockers on my Jeep but I do have beadlocks. Airing down to 5 lbs. in 4WD low got me through some impressive snow piles last winter. But, I can't afford to put beadlocks on the van.
Honestly, if I had 2 grand lying around for lockers I would probably buy beadlocks instead.
jadmt
ignore button user
Yes CL. I found I really never needed them. Drug them to Moab couple of times and California twice and locally in the snow and just never needed them. Any of your cronies looking for an off road tent camper? I have one listed here expedition portal in the classifieds. To cold yet to advertise locally.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
If only one, do rear. Most of the time you won't need 4WD anyway. Detroit Locker is good, but can be rather harsh. And yea, squirelly in slippery conditions. I certainly wouldn't use one in a Dana 30, that's a recipe for a broken axle.
For hardcore offroading, I've used Detroit Lockers front and rear. But for less rigorous use I like a Detroit Locker in the rear and a Detroit Truetrack limited slip in the front.
But for mild offroading a Truetrack in the rear and airdowned tires will get you through 90% of the time.
For hardcore offroading, I've used Detroit Lockers front and rear. But for less rigorous use I like a Detroit Locker in the rear and a Detroit Truetrack limited slip in the front.
But for mild offroading a Truetrack in the rear and airdowned tires will get you through 90% of the time.
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Even with hub locks I'd only run a selectable locker in front, e.g. an Air Locker, or maybe a LSD. Having a locked front axle that you can't open makes mild trails (those where 4wd is useful but not so hard as you to need two lockers) unnecessarily difficult. You're fighting the locker all the time trying to steer. When I had dual lockers I used the front maybe a handful of trails and those you usually have to seek out. Even on the Rubicon I only maybe used it half a dozen times. The locker in the rear gains you the majority of utility. I'd spend money on a winch before a front locker personally.
Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
...some experiences with Detroits (since many are recommending them);
They work effort and consciousness free (even when you don't want them to)...have ended up spinning(horizontally) down the interstate on black ice because of them; note this effect is much worse in short wheel base vehicle i.e CJ-5 and less noticeable in long vehicles (crew cab pickups).
They work well in the front axles (some prefer them, the soft locker version, to any other locker in front...however on slick side hills they will go sideways downhill faster than they will go forward..
Running on the street, hopefully at slow speeds, if you hit a pach of sand/ice with the (open/unlocked) front axle a rear Detroit, with traction, can push the turned front tires sideways, putting you a lane over or potentially off the road.
For snow deep enough that you will get high centered if you stop; a rear locker (locked) helps keep the boggers/mud tires spinning and an unlocked selectable locker in front helps keep you from sliding downhill into the woods/off the cliff.
Detroits running on terrain with traction and deep moguls can produce a situation similar to free fall; without engine braking; as alternate tires on the same axle come off the ground and the vehicle moves forward under the pull of gravity until the differential locks (by which time the tire on the other side is off the ground and the same thing happens)... somewhat white knuckle-y the first couple of times like when the vehicle tries to endo on steep climbs or decents.
Personally having tried many L/S's and lockers; given the choice I cannot recommend Detroits in a vehicle that has any chance of seeing black ice on roads or icy side hills (even the crown on some roads can cause problems in some slippery conditions); for me its ARBs only offroad or possibly Torsen style limited slips for civilized (onroad) vehicles (not real happy with the one in the Explorer or the selectable version in the Rubicon but at least they haven't tried to kill me... yet).
Enjoy!
They work effort and consciousness free (even when you don't want them to)...have ended up spinning(horizontally) down the interstate on black ice because of them; note this effect is much worse in short wheel base vehicle i.e CJ-5 and less noticeable in long vehicles (crew cab pickups).
They work well in the front axles (some prefer them, the soft locker version, to any other locker in front...however on slick side hills they will go sideways downhill faster than they will go forward..
Running on the street, hopefully at slow speeds, if you hit a pach of sand/ice with the (open/unlocked) front axle a rear Detroit, with traction, can push the turned front tires sideways, putting you a lane over or potentially off the road.
For snow deep enough that you will get high centered if you stop; a rear locker (locked) helps keep the boggers/mud tires spinning and an unlocked selectable locker in front helps keep you from sliding downhill into the woods/off the cliff.
Detroits running on terrain with traction and deep moguls can produce a situation similar to free fall; without engine braking; as alternate tires on the same axle come off the ground and the vehicle moves forward under the pull of gravity until the differential locks (by which time the tire on the other side is off the ground and the same thing happens)... somewhat white knuckle-y the first couple of times like when the vehicle tries to endo on steep climbs or decents.
Personally having tried many L/S's and lockers; given the choice I cannot recommend Detroits in a vehicle that has any chance of seeing black ice on roads or icy side hills (even the crown on some roads can cause problems in some slippery conditions); for me its ARBs only offroad or possibly Torsen style limited slips for civilized (onroad) vehicles (not real happy with the one in the Explorer or the selectable version in the Rubicon but at least they haven't tried to kill me... yet).
Enjoy!
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dwh
Tail-End Charlie
And...I've never been a fan of air lockers or elockers. The reason is, that when locked, they are a spool.
Spools have their uses, and can really rock offroad. But...they can also twist or break axles - especially with big tires aired down and awesome traction.
The problem with a spool is that it won't allow the tires to rotate at different speeds. Period. Will. Not. Allow.
But when wheeling, very often, the tires NEED to rotate at different speeds. Roll one tire up and over a big rock, but not the other...with a spool you're asking for a twisted or snapped axle.
So with a "selectable locker", which is actually a "selectable spool", it's up to the driver to stay on top of it and make sure to switch it on and off as needed. For instance, switch on to get the tire up on the rock, switch off to roll down the other side.
Meh...too much micro-management for me. I've got other things to think about so there's a good chance I'll forget to flip the stupid switch at the right time, or think it's off when actually it's on...and end up snapping an axle.
I prefer a mechanical. Either Detroit Locker (ratchet) or Detroit Truetrack (clutches). And for anything other than hardcore wheeling, I wouldn't recommend a Detroit Locker. Limited slip is better for most people and most situations. For some situations...drag racing, pedal to the metal in Baja, drifting, mud bogging...gimme a spool for sure.
Spools have their uses, and can really rock offroad. But...they can also twist or break axles - especially with big tires aired down and awesome traction.
The problem with a spool is that it won't allow the tires to rotate at different speeds. Period. Will. Not. Allow.
But when wheeling, very often, the tires NEED to rotate at different speeds. Roll one tire up and over a big rock, but not the other...with a spool you're asking for a twisted or snapped axle.
So with a "selectable locker", which is actually a "selectable spool", it's up to the driver to stay on top of it and make sure to switch it on and off as needed. For instance, switch on to get the tire up on the rock, switch off to roll down the other side.
Meh...too much micro-management for me. I've got other things to think about so there's a good chance I'll forget to flip the stupid switch at the right time, or think it's off when actually it's on...and end up snapping an axle.
I prefer a mechanical. Either Detroit Locker (ratchet) or Detroit Truetrack (clutches). And for anything other than hardcore wheeling, I wouldn't recommend a Detroit Locker. Limited slip is better for most people and most situations. For some situations...drag racing, pedal to the metal in Baja, drifting, mud bogging...gimme a spool for sure.
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GB_Willys_2014
Well-known member
Did you mean to say Truetrac is clutchless as it has helical gears, unlike most factory-equipped LSD's ?
Detroit Truetrac | differential | limited slip | Eaton
The Detroit Truetrac is a helical-gear style limited-slip differential that maximizes wheel traction and enhances driving and handling characteristics.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
No, I'm just an idiot still working on his first cup of morning coffee and spaced out picturing cones and clutches.
Bravo8- Here are my thoughts. I'm building a cherokee like you. The purpose of my rig is to get me down a trail / dirt road and past unforeseen objects. Lockers are great to have but add a slight level of complexity and cost. The big question is do you need them. Only you can really answer this. Right now I'm focusing on articulation and bumpstopping to use the most of my suspension. Now I'm running an open front with a LSD rear. Haven't needed lockers yet. When I regear then I'll be in the same spot as you. If I decide on a locker then. I'd put it in the rear. Good luck with your decision.