Front or Rear winch?

[Metcalf]

So the question becomes.....

Is winching through a trail really running it? Why not pull out backward when stuck and try driving again instead of pulling yourself over whatever gave you problems in the first place?

( note: there is a lot to be said for using a winch to pull yourself over or through something rather than tear up the trail trying over and over and over)

On the trail I tend to see a lot of people that have gone farther than they should of in a vehicle that was not well enough equipped. They can do whatever they want don't get me wrong.

I think in general when used wrong.....just like lockers, big tires, low gearing, airing down, etc......winching forward over obstacles or farther into the trail generally gets you stuck farther in rather than helping you get out.

Just a thought.

I have probably been guilty more than most about getting back into places I shouldn't be in the first place. I'm not judging at all....just trying to present an opinion people can learn from.

 

[Metcalf]

Winching backwards....

This one will generally not be easy to understand.

By increasing the cable take-up behind the vehicle so that you can exceed the distance needed to be traveled by the vehicle rearward you can effectively move yourself backwards.

If you don't think this will work get out the legos, or build a simple model with hardware store stuff.

Picture.....

Do not jump to conclusions about this not working......think it through and model it out.

Is it practical...most likely not, but its a cool trick to have up your sleeve.

 

[I Leak Oil]

But the winch is still pulling forward, no?
Jason T.

 

[granitex1]

working demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Envop0d-qAc
on how the rigging works

 

[Metcalf]

yes, winch is still pulling in.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Wow so many things have to be so right to make that backwards trick work (ie, trees in all the right places...) For the weight that it takes to carry around all that rigging, I bet you could have a winch on back.

 

[spencyg]

I think that a requirement for winch locations changes as you think about the purpose of your outing. I am in the camp that feels a backwards retreat is the best idea...chances are once you're stuck you probably haven't made it very far through the obstacle and going backwards will be less distance to pull. I am NOT somebody who goes down a road hoping to see mud, rock embankments, etc....my idea of a good trip is one where I don't encounter anything that could screw up my rig and prevent me from getting to my desired destination. Now...if I was building a buggy and didn't come across any rocks or mud, I'd probably be upset. I'd also probably be upset if I didn't get a picture of my buggy on the OTHER side of the rocks, mud, etc, therefore proving my manlihood (or whatever it is that makes people do this...??). Having a front mount winch could prove to be an asset for somebody who is only crossing a mudhole for the purpose of crossing the mud hole. For me, my rig is meant to get me somewhere in comfort so I can set up and enjoy nature and the company I keep...a rear mounted winch pulls me out of a problem so I can either try again, or find another way.

That being said...I have two winches...one on each end...just because

Spence

 

[Metcalf]

You can do it with just one forward and one rear mounting point if they are offset enough to clear the cable alongside the vehicle. You will need at least...

-4 snatch blocks ( you might be able to get away with 3 though?)

-3 shackles (front, rear, vehicle)

-2 ways to attach the shackles to your anchors ( chain, strap, tree strap, etc)


A good trick could to have a double line snatch block for the rear. You could for SURE get away with 3 then. This would also save a little weight and space overall.

I think the only thing out of the ordinary is the extra snatch blocks. Most winch kits should have at least a chain, tree strap, and tow strap. Perhaps you would have to throw in a spare shackle or two.

Remember, you don't need to have trees in the perfects spots. Given enough time you can dig a dead man easy enough to bury a spare tire, your hi-lift bar, a log, or a trusting friend.....

Again...not the most practical....but a good trick to have under your hat.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

My trick under my hat is a HiLift Extreme rigged to work as a winch to pull me back if I CANNOT go forward.

 

[I Leak Oil]

working demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Envop0d-qAc
on how the rigging works

Well there you go! That is pretty cool! Now I'll need a bigger truck to carry all the rigging though. Thanks for the link.
Jason T.

 

[Redline]

I saw this work in person at the 2007 Expedition Trophy. One of the group ‘special tasks’ was exactly this, pull a vehicle reward with a front mounted winch. Our group didn't succeed in the time allowed (I personally had no idea how to accomplish this properly) but it surely worked. I do agree about the anchor points. We often have a problem finding just one good anchor point in Nevada (Pull Pal) having two would be difficult in many situations. Surely having the knowledge and the gear to accomplish this would be a good thing.

Front or Rear Winch

In my many years of off-highway travel most of my stucks have been without another vehicle nearby and a rearward pull/winch would have been best. Hell, any winch would have been nice.

The focus on the lack of a suitable mount for a rear winch is maybe one of their bigger detractors. I know of only a few rear winch bumpers, the Reunel rear winch bumper for a full-size trucks comes to mind. It's not really bigger than their regular rear bumper.

If a suitable winch bumper can be made or sourced then are most of the negatives of a rear mounted winch negated?

Having spoken in favor of a rear mounted winch, this past April Team Nevada used our front mounted winches very effectively a few times during the Nevada Trophy event. We generally ‘did’ want to go forward and our front mounted winches were more desirable than a rear mounted winch.

Loading

In addition to the recovery issue, I think one should seriously consider the realities of weight distribution, balance and loading. In a heavy-duty full-sized truck with a big payload that may not be utilized much of the time, a winch on the rear may make much more sense than one on the front. However, on a utility vehicle that might be heavily loaded for a trip, usually with too much in the rear AND behind the rear axle, having the added weight of a winch in the rear may be an added negative.

Winching backwards....

This one will generally not be easy to understand.

By increasing the cable take-up behind the vehicle so that you can exceed the distance needed to be traveled by the vehicle rearward you can effectively move yourself backwards.

If you don't think this will work get out the legos, or build a simple model with hardware store stuff.

Picture.....

Do not jump to conclusions about this not working......think it through and model it out.

Is it practical...most likely not, but its a cool trick to have up your sleeve.

 

[michaelgroves]

Picture.....

Do not jump to conclusions about this not working......think it through and model it out.

Very nice diagram, thanks

It is kinda counter intuitive, or at least, that's how I'm rationalising my stupid gene... But no question, it makes sense.

 

[kellymoe]

Since I have a front mounted PTO winch I would very much like to have a rear mounted electric. I could see it coming in very handy.

 

[michaelgroves]

On thinking about it, it seems to me that the average rearward pull is likely to be significantly shorter than the average pull forwards. You're just trying to get back onto solid ground, whereas, going forwrds, you are more likely to be trying to get past the difficult section.

So there is a case for just carrying a come-along (and suitable rigging) for any rear pulling required.

As I said in another thread, there's no need to carry (or point in carrying) a giant, heavy come-along, no matter how big your vehicle. Ultimately, all the work comes from your body, so you can get one big enough that you won't break it, and then use rigging to get the necessary mechanical advantage.

 

[michaelgroves]

You can do it with just one forward and one rear mounting point if they are offset enough to clear the cable alongside the vehicle. You will need at least...

-4 snatch blocks ( you might be able to get away with 3 though?)

-3 shackles (front, rear, vehicle)

-2 ways to attach the shackles to your anchors ( chain, strap, tree strap, etc)


A good trick could to have a double line snatch block for the rear. You could for SURE get away with 3 then. This would also save a little weight and space overall.

I think the only thing out of the ordinary is the extra snatch blocks. Most winch kits should have at least a chain, tree strap, and tow strap. Perhaps you would have to throw in a spare shackle or two.

Remember, you don't need to have trees in the perfects spots. Given enough time you can dig a dead man easy enough to bury a spare tire, your hi-lift bar, a log, or a trusting friend.....

Again...not the most practical....but a good trick to have under your hat.

The trouble with relying on just two anchors both offset to the side, is that there will be a lot of sideways pull on the truck. Also, I think you want as many snatch blocks at the back as possible, so as to reduce the frame-stretching effect (worst-case scenario is when the front and rear pulls are equal, in which case the truck is stretched with the full force of the winch, and no movement takes place).