Fun with Pull.Pal
- Thread starter utahred
- Start date
Gear
Explorer, Overland Certified OC0020
I am by no means a chain expert but since you are starting out I will ask you this. Do you know the WLL(working load limit) of the chain you are using. The reason I ask is most use a grade 70 transport chain. It is usually a copper color. I just don't want to see you get hurt if that chain lets go!
I would like to give you a thumbs up for getting out and practicing with your new toys. This will be very beneficial when you do need them. :26_7_2:
Ford Prefect
Expedition Leader
A thought on the tree strap.
Here in Utah we have a few aspen trees, and when you get into neighboring states they have TONS of them.
One thing I learned (via the poor mistakes of others) when strapping to a tree always place the strap as low as possible. A jeep and a winch can easily pull down an aspen tree with a diameter of ten inches, if the tree strap is placed only three feet off the ground. Seen it happen, not pretty, not cool, not funny, and very much not "tread lightly".
Obviously Aspen trees have very shallow route systems, but the point is valid for many trees all the same, it is always better safe than sorry. As if pulling down a tree is not bad enough, all you need is to get yourself out and block the trail in front of you at the same time, or worse pull the tree down on yourself/ vehicle.
Love the pull pal, would love to get one, but sadly far too spendy for my budget. Maybe someday.
Brian
Here in Utah we have a few aspen trees, and when you get into neighboring states they have TONS of them.
One thing I learned (via the poor mistakes of others) when strapping to a tree always place the strap as low as possible. A jeep and a winch can easily pull down an aspen tree with a diameter of ten inches, if the tree strap is placed only three feet off the ground. Seen it happen, not pretty, not cool, not funny, and very much not "tread lightly".
Obviously Aspen trees have very shallow route systems, but the point is valid for many trees all the same, it is always better safe than sorry. As if pulling down a tree is not bad enough, all you need is to get yourself out and block the trail in front of you at the same time, or worse pull the tree down on yourself/ vehicle.
Love the pull pal, would love to get one, but sadly far too spendy for my budget. Maybe someday.
Brian
That's a good question GEAR. You may not be a chain expert, but I'll bet you know more than I do.
I bought the chain at Home Depot. It's 3/8 Zinc Plated Grade 43 with a WLL of 4500 lbs. 1st Chain Supply, where I bought a couple of shackles, specifies Grade 43 with a WLL of 5400 lbs, a breaking strength of 16200 lbs and they claim their chain is made in the USA. The Home Depot chain doesn't seem to be quite the same quality. And I don't bother to look at country of origin labels anymore; I assume anything Home Depot sells is made in China.
Grade 43 is used extensively in the trucking industry for binder chains and in logging for various purposes. However that doesn't mean it's suitable for what I intended to use it for.
So ... since I obviously don't know, what does the WLL really mean in winching situations?
1st Chain Supply specifies 3/8 Grade 70 as having a WLL of 6600 lbs and a breaking strength of 26400 lbs.
Is that what I need for safety? I really hate to buy more chain. That 30' cost me over $90.00.
I bought the chain at Home Depot. It's 3/8 Zinc Plated Grade 43 with a WLL of 4500 lbs. 1st Chain Supply, where I bought a couple of shackles, specifies Grade 43 with a WLL of 5400 lbs, a breaking strength of 16200 lbs and they claim their chain is made in the USA. The Home Depot chain doesn't seem to be quite the same quality. And I don't bother to look at country of origin labels anymore; I assume anything Home Depot sells is made in China.
Grade 43 is used extensively in the trucking industry for binder chains and in logging for various purposes. However that doesn't mean it's suitable for what I intended to use it for.
So ... since I obviously don't know, what does the WLL really mean in winching situations?
1st Chain Supply specifies 3/8 Grade 70 as having a WLL of 6600 lbs and a breaking strength of 26400 lbs.
Is that what I need for safety? I really hate to buy more chain. That 30' cost me over $90.00.
More about chain grades.
I looked a the markings on chain that came with the Hi-Lift off road kit. It's marked TC4. If I understand grade markings, it means grade 43. Further markings indicate the chain is from Taiwan.
I guess, either the jack or the short connecting chains would break before Grade 70 chain would.
Of course if I do need Grade 70 for ultimate safety, that's the way I'll go.
I looked a the markings on chain that came with the Hi-Lift off road kit. It's marked TC4. If I understand grade markings, it means grade 43. Further markings indicate the chain is from Taiwan.
I guess, either the jack or the short connecting chains would break before Grade 70 chain would.
Of course if I do need Grade 70 for ultimate safety, that's the way I'll go.
Someone else can pop in with more specifics here (as there's likely a nifty formula for things like this), but I think that chain likely isn't strong enough.
1 - The Xterra itself weights 5K pounds or so, IIRC. Mind you, you're probably not looking to suspend the thing in the air, but that's one point of reference.
2 - When stuck it's somewhat likely that you're not only pulling the weight of the vehicle but the resistance as well. That can drastically increase the weight on the chain.
I'm certainly not an expert here, and the breaking strength should be high enough, but that's what would concern me right off the bat. I believe most of the folks I know use recovery straps rated for 20K lbs (dunno if that's working or breaking off the top of my head).
1 - The Xterra itself weights 5K pounds or so, IIRC. Mind you, you're probably not looking to suspend the thing in the air, but that's one point of reference.
2 - When stuck it's somewhat likely that you're not only pulling the weight of the vehicle but the resistance as well. That can drastically increase the weight on the chain.
I'm certainly not an expert here, and the breaking strength should be high enough, but that's what would concern me right off the bat. I believe most of the folks I know use recovery straps rated for 20K lbs (dunno if that's working or breaking off the top of my head).
This poses a conundrum alright.
Hi-Lift rates its jack at 4,660 lbs and they test it to 7,000 lbs. But if the attachment chains that come with the off road kit are only Grade 43, that's going to fail before the jack. So either I need to upgrade the attachment chain and my chain or determine how much force is exerted on the whole system.
Sounds like a task for the Myth Busters, wish I had their heavy duty strain gauge.
In the mean time I'm curious and will ask HI-Lift for information.
Hi-Lift rates its jack at 4,660 lbs and they test it to 7,000 lbs. But if the attachment chains that come with the off road kit are only Grade 43, that's going to fail before the jack. So either I need to upgrade the attachment chain and my chain or determine how much force is exerted on the whole system.
Sounds like a task for the Myth Busters, wish I had their heavy duty strain gauge.
In the mean time I'm curious and will ask HI-Lift for information.
michaelgroves
Explorer
I wouldn't get too worried about the safety aspect of the chain breaking. Just make sure you tether it. Use some good quality, lightweight line, tie one end to the jack, and thread it through a few links all the way up the length of the chain. Tie the other end to something else (the bumper, say). Then, if the chain, or the shackle or something breaks, the line will stop the rigging from flying. Still hugely important not to have any stretchy components, else the line will just break.
Tethering is far more effective than damping (draping a tarp etc. over the rigging), but a bit more hassle.
Tethering is far more effective than damping (draping a tarp etc. over the rigging), but a bit more hassle.
Gear
Explorer, Overland Certified OC0020
I am glad you are thinking about safety first. I am curious what Hi-Lift has for answers on there chain. My guess is that there chain will be fine. It is the Home Depot Chain that concerns me. Since you are taking the time to learn the correct way to use your new toys, I thought you might like this video - Getting UNstuck.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/4wa/
I thought it was worth watching. You might also try youtube - Bill Burke
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bill+burke+off+road+Hi-Lift+winch&aq=f
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Just remember every time you bend/knot a rope you effectively lose a 1/3rd or even more of it's tensile strength (the numbers escape me currently)...I'm just being a finger shaking nanny, but I see alot of folks who don't seem to understand that principle (not saying you don't, just saying eh)
Cheers
Dave
I requested some info on chain grade from Hi-Lift:
I intend to use the Hi-Lift for winching a Nissan Xterra if I get stuck in sand mud etc. What is the minimum grade of chain I should use. I now have 30' of Grade 43. I note that the attachment chains that come with the Off Road Kit are Grade 43. Is this strong enough?
And received the following answer from Tom Franklin of Hi-Lift:
Grade 43 will exceed the force generated by your Hi-Lift Jack. We've done extensive testing and have never broken a chain while winching. If you haven't already done so, we have a good video on YouTube showing the technique for using your Hi-Lift for winching.
I intend to use the Hi-Lift for winching a Nissan Xterra if I get stuck in sand mud etc. What is the minimum grade of chain I should use. I now have 30' of Grade 43. I note that the attachment chains that come with the Off Road Kit are Grade 43. Is this strong enough?
And received the following answer from Tom Franklin of Hi-Lift:
Grade 43 will exceed the force generated by your Hi-Lift Jack. We've done extensive testing and have never broken a chain while winching. If you haven't already done so, we have a good video on YouTube showing the technique for using your Hi-Lift for winching.
michaelgroves
Explorer
Good info, thank you