Functional offroad exhaust mods

[Mash5]

DeWalt titanium bit with a small protrusion at the front to prevent walking. But the big part of the tip isn't cone shaped

I think this is a big part of your problem. These are great in wood but I have tried to use these bits in steel (only caus it's what I had) and had very poor results.

I would recommend a standard 135* tip twist drill. Split point would be nice if you can find it, plane old high speed steel is fine.

Use a cutting fluid of some kind and keep the drill slow as has been mentioned. There is no harm in turning too slow only in going too fast. 60 rpm is just fine. That said you need to apply enough pressure to the drill for it to cut. If your drill is not making chips stop. If there is no chip forming you are just rubbing the drill against the work. If it wont make a chip it is too dull and you may as well stop and get a new one.

Also it is always a good practice to drill a pilot hole. The very tip of the drill makes a lot of heat because it is basically just mashing it's way through.

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

[DPGDirk]

Installing that skid is extremely difficult. I wouldn't buy it again if I had the choice. The frame and crossmember are HARD to drill. There is some strange material inside some parts of the framerails that you can't drill through. Even ignoring those, each hole takes about an hour. We got 3 bolts in so far today, and I decided to stop working.

Wow. You wouldn't buy our skid again because the frame and crossmember are hard to drill?:Wow1:
There is no strange, hard material inside the unibody or the crossmember.
It's just mild steel.
As others have eluded to so far and I'd like to make very clear here- the one and only reason you had a hard time drilling is because you bought the wrong bits for the job.
Buy good quality steel cutting bits and the job is EASY.

Better to get a skid that bolts up underneath, so you only have to go through one layer of steel and put in a self tapping bolt.

Our skids used to mount this way. Self tapping hardware does not hold nearly as strong in the unibody as our current hardware does.
Again, buy good quality drill bits!

Unfortunately I think I gouged the hell out of the inside of the frame rails thanks to the drill bit walking. I'm afraid I've left the frame much weaker. I don't know what to do now. There is no way to see inside, so the only thing that will make me trust the strength of the unibody is reinforcement.

You haven't hurt your unibody dude. Relax.

This is the most expensive skid plate install imaginable....

Again, wow. BUY GOOD BITS!!!

I really wish that DPG guy would tell people how difficult it is to install his skid. I actually think he was dishonest about the rarity of the cat conflicting with the skid. Everyone seems to be saying they had the same issue with the cat, but Dirk said it's very rare.

I gotta tell you- I really don't appreciate being called a liar in a public forum. It would be one thing if it were true.
The more you post here, the more obvious it seems to me that you really don't have the basic knowledge of tools required to perform basic mods like this. Maybe you would've been better off having a shop install this.

Perhaps you could refrain from the false accusations long enough to figure out that this skid is not difficult to install with THE RIGHT DRILL BITS.
We install those skids in our shop in about 30 minutes regularly.

As for the cat, XJ's came with different sizes. Exhaust systems vary as to how low they hang in the jeep too. The easiest and cheapest way to fix that is to simply have a muffler shop move the cat rearward a bit. Costs about $25.00 at our local shop. Very minor situation- IF it arises at all.
I've installed plenty of these with no interference from the cat.
YMMV.

I believe our belly skid is the smoothest, highest clearance bolt-on belly skid available. It protects the t-case and the full crossmember as well.
I don't know of another skid on the market that works better than ours- and oh yes- It's an easy install- with the right drill bits!:safari-rig:

 

[winkosmosis]

Sorry, I was just frustrated that day from getting nowhere and being scared that I harmed my Jeep.

What I said about you being misleading was based on what I've read on NAXJA. Do you have any numbers on how many of the round cats actually hang too low? Have you heard from anyone with the round cat having it fit without issue? It really seems to me that every round cat has the clearance problem.
Edit: Oh I didn't say you were misleading, but that you were dishonest. I didn't remember that I typed that. I apologize again.

I have to also say that the cat couldn't be moved back enough to clear the skid. There isn't enough free pipe between the cat and the O2 sensor. That is why I had the cat replaced. The only way I could see is if you replaced the muffler with a shorter unit to allow the cat and o2 sensor to move back. Am I missing something?


Regarding the right and wrong bits, your instructions didn't specify the type of bit, only the size. Actually I'm still not sure what the right bit is. What does "good quality steel cutting bits" mean? Some people say to use carbide bits, some posts here say normal bits, and some recommend stepped bits. What is the right bit and how do you expect someone who has never drilled into a frame to know? I went to the store and bought what looked like a high quality brand name titanium bit recommended for metal. Then for the long bit, I bought the only thing I could find, a standard black "aircraft bit" also recommended for metal. If bits that are supposed to work on metal aren't the right bits for vehicle's frame, you should say so. Or you should put in the instructions "if you are too dumb to know the right bits to use on your XJ's uniframe, you should take it to a shop that does know".

And there IS a hard substance in the passenger side uniframe rail. It feels like there are strips of steel positioned horizontally, and some hard nonmetallic substance. I thought it was sound deadening but it could be excess rustproofing. It's definitely not just an empty framerail.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

Wow. You wouldn't buy our skid again because the frame and crossmember are hard to drill?:Wow1:
<snip>

I can honestly say I don't know anything about DPG Offroad. Never bought anything from them and never looked at their site nor do I read NAXJA.

I HAVE worked on Jeeps off and on since 1995...Samurais before that since 1988. I also had a shop and did professional installs for about 3 years. I HAVE owned and worked for several companies where customers are sometimes unhappy.

I HAVE NEVER gone online or to any other public forum and called one of those customers, "dude", or questioned their "basic knowledge", even if my feelings were hurt because they had a problem and expressed their frustration.

Work it out in private and post the solution. Makes for a much more positive view of your company.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

I believe our belly skid is the smoothest, highest clearance bolt-on belly skid available. It protects the t-case and the full crossmember as well.
I don't know of another skid on the market that works better than ours- and oh yes- It's an easy install- with the right drill bits!:safari-rig:

Well DPG I just went to you website and saw this:

" Your Price $189.00! (Retail Price $249.00)"

I gotta ASK? Are you on drugs, a belly skid for $189, retail for $249?????? I paid $450 for my Belly Up from AEV for my TJ, yes its a good if not GREAT plate.

But HOLY COW I think you are giving away the farm...at those prices NO ONE can complain about anything!!!! You ever start making them for TJs let us know, I just happen to need another one...

That said, 100% agree on WRONG DRILL BIT, DUDE.

Run down to Sears and pick up a Boron Steel bit for metal. I just picked up a 1/2 in one for $16.95, goes thru steel like a knife thru butter.

Speaking of exhaust upgrades. I suggest to all that you put a after market tip on your exhaust tip...either bling or just plain exhaust steel. You want the kind that normally comes out and then points down. Now turn it 90 degree so it points out. This is to stop exhuast gases from 'pooling' under your Jeep from long idles in the outback...

 

[AFSOC]

I can honestly say I don't know anything about DPG Offroad. Never bought anything from them and never looked at their site nor do I read NAXJA.

I have dealt with DPG Offroad, I bought my OME system from Dirk. He has an excellent reputation in the XJ community. I couldn't be more pleased with Dirk's service and especially his advice. A search of this forum will reveal many posts praising Dirk and DPG. You are familiar with the levels of credibility of known ExPo members, please form your own opinion.

I agree that this issue should have been taken care of offline.

 

[winkosmosis]

It's not true that I wouldn't buy it again. I definitely would, because it's one of only 3 full width skids. One is the TNT, which is 2x the price and is narrower on the right side. The other is the JCR which is heavier 1/4" steel http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1006441

I'd just want more information on what bits to use. Will see if I can find boron ones tomorrow.

 

[titleguy]

It's not true that I wouldn't buy it again. I definitely would, because it's one of only 3 full width skids. One is the TNT, which is 2x the price and is narrower on the right side. The other is the JCR which is heavier 1/4" steel http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1006441

I'd just want more information on what bits to use. Will see if I can find boron ones tomorrow.

If you are trying to drill a 1/2" hole through a frame rail and are using just a 1/2" bit, that's crazy. Drill a 1/4" pilot first and then go back with the 1/2"---that's why step its work well because a small hole is easier to make and then you gradually go up in size.

Seriously, this isn't that hard. You owe Dirk a huge apology.

 

[winkosmosis]

If you are trying to drill a 1/2" hole through a frame rail and are using just a 1/2" bit, that's crazy. Drill a 1/4" pilot first and then go back with the 1/2"---that's why step its work well because a small hole is easier to make and then you gradually go up in size.

Seriously, this isn't that hard. You owe Dirk a huge apology.

I did apologize, for saying he was dishonest about the round cats not fitting being rare.

I've been using 1/4" pilot and 3/8" bits since I realized the metal wasn't mild enough to go straight through. I think he should have mentioned that in the step-by-step instructions. If they were general instructions, I wouldn't expect that--- but why leave out type of bit to use and the pilot steps needed when you're giving every other detail, and then post this?

Perhaps you could refrain from the false accusations long enough to figure out that this skid is not difficult to install with THE RIGHT DRILL BITS.

 

[saburai]

Sorry but...

At the risk offending Winkosmosis, it seem to me that this boils down to a lack of mechanical aptitude on your part.

When you buy after market parts for a modified vehicle, the assumption exists that you, at the very least, have a fundamental working knowledge of the tools that you are required to use for the job at hand.
As demonstrated by your questions and your post, you don't know the difference between a wood, masonry or metal bit. It's probable, given this information that your experience drilling different materials is limited.
More than likley this is at the root of your problem.

Please don't take this as a put down or a derogatory remark in any way, it's not. We are all at different stages of learning in what ever it is we endeavor to undertake.

However, pointing fingers at a manufacturer or retailer because of ones own ineptitude accomplishes nothing...

 

[winkosmosis]

Saburai I bought bits that said they were for wood and metal. Those are the ones that Dirk says are the wrong bits, but the instructions don't say what the right ones are.

Someone said to get a carbide bit... the only carbide bits I found were for masonry.

If you're going to write detailed step by step instructions, why not specify what bits to use, especially when a bit for metal is the wrong bit?

 

[Root Moose]

Saburai I bought bits that said they were for wood and metal. Those are the ones that Dirk says are the wrong bits, but the instructions don't say what the right ones are.

Someone said to get a carbide bit... the only carbide bits I found were for masonry.

If you're going to write detailed step by step instructions, why not specify what bits to use, especially when a bit for metal is the wrong bit?

Ok, it's time for you to take a breath and just stop posting. Your question above about the instructions and the type of bit is grasping at straws.

Re-read Saburai's post, especially the part about assumed knowledge about the tools required to do the job.

Chalk up what has happened as a learning experience. There are different types of bits for different tasks. You picked the wrong ones due to inexperience. No biggie but we need to move on at this point.

 

[winkosmosis]

I can't find 5.5" or longer cobalt bits

 

[Root Moose]

Where are you looking? Is there a real fastener store (i.e. not Home Depot or Lowes) in your town/city?

 

[winkosmosis]

But RootMoose that's exactly what I was talking about when I said he should warn people how hard it is. No, I didn't know the right bit. So I read the instructions and they didn't specify anything, so I bought bits that said they worked for metal.

What is the point in leaving that info out because you assume someone installing a skid plate has drilled through a frame before?