Functional offroad exhaust mods

winkosmosis

Explorer
Where are you looking? Is there a real fastener store (i.e. not Home Depot or Lowes) in your town/city?

The only other stores are Ace Hardwares. I talked to them yesterday but the best they had was the regular black oxide bits, so I bought another pair of them and a Drill Doctor. Then I came home and saw that for the first time someone said to get cobalt bits.

Should I use the oxide bits, and sharpen them when they get dull? I got my solid cutting lube bar and cutting lube crayon.
 

gabepari

Explorer
Time to pay someone that knows what they are doing. This is starting to sound like the Honda-Tech forum :costumed-smiley-007
 

winkosmosis

Explorer
Time to pay someone that knows what they are doing. This is starting to sound like the Honda-Tech forum :costumed-smiley-007


Why would I do that when the job is halfway done?
Now who would you even pay to do a job like this? An "offroad" bling shop?

Actually it has never even occurred to me to pay someone to install a skid plate. There is no reason I would have had any problems if given simple information. It's me and my dad working on this, and he's built a house and spent 40 years on oil fields. It's not a lack of mechanical ability, but information... the right way to drill through a car's uniframe.

After getting information from you guys, I know the proper way and the proper equipment... And this is just text. The same kind of text you can put in an installation guide.

Why am I getting flak for saying that the instructions should say "use a cobalt bit and cutting oil, not a normal bit that says it's for metal"?
 
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78Bronco

Explorer
OK...

First off they no such thing as a oxide bit. The black coloriing is from the bit being heated and quenched in oil to make it harder, so it lasts longer. Drill bits are made of various high speed steels, the grade of the high speed steel will determine the performance when cutting the various types of metals used in vehicles. Carbide drills are not for hand drilling, they are for machining with machines.

You don't need the best drill bits to make this happen but any bit that is sold for wood and metal shouldn't gp near metal. It's garbage from China.

The cutting oil provides lubrication for cutting, it doesn't serve much in cooling while cutting because of the lack of volume of oil being supplied to where the heat is being generated. The oil will help reduce the friction generated by the sides of the drill bit rubbing against the wall of the hole as its being formed. The heat of the cutting action should be taken away from the operation by the chips being formed as the bit scrapes te steel away with the cutting edge. If the fluid was being supplied in great volume then yes it would cool, but in a hand drilling application its reducing friction, therefore less heat generated.


So Wink has learned a great deal about the process of drill a frame. A good quality set of drill bits should be on your xmas list...like union butterfield or cleveland twist drill. They will cost about $100 bucks for a set from 1/32 to 1/2" in 1/64 increments. Also look for a set of transfer punches. You can mock up where the skid plate is to be positioned and then select a puch that fits the hole in the skid plate tightly and transfer its center onto the subframe. Then remove the skid plate and you know where all the holes are supposed to be and they are already center punched to prevent the drill bit from wandering.

When drilling large holes, lets say over 5/16" it's easier to start small and work your way up in 1/8" increments when drilling by hand.

Often instructions lack every piece of information necessary to complete something. It's inferred that you should have some knowledge of how to drill a hole through a cars frame when you are buying aftermarket DIY install products. Don't slight the mfg for not telling you to use a split point quality high speed made in america)or canada) drill bit. Did they tell you which way to turn a bolt to tighten it or what type of socket set to use. When you started having problems drilling the holes I'm sure a phone call to the MFG would have made sense and politely ask for tips or even some pictures emailed to you of the tools they use, etc.

It's not a lack of mechanical ability, but information... the right way to drill through a car's uniframe.

Put drill bit in chuck of drill, tighten with drill chuck key, plug in drill, mark your hole, center punch your hole, apply cutting fluid to bit, put on your safety glasses, is the drill plugged in still. Activate the drill b pulling the trigger. Is the drill turning clockwise? Is the drill bit from China? If yes go to store buy USA drill bit and start from beginning. OK good, USA bit. Position drill bit, make sure its square to face you are drilling through, start turning the bit. Are there chips yet...you get the idea. They don;t need to put this stuff in the instructions.

Maybe there is another friendly expo member that has enough experince in this stuff that could lend you a hand. In any event you learned something have more experience and know what to ask when buying future products.

"How hard is it too install?" "What tools do I need?" "Can you send me the instructions before I commit to buying?"

Good luck. We have all been there once;)

I Agree that DPG should have PM'd or got your number or something but can understand why he posted. I sensed a great deal of attitude in his post and I'm thankfull I do not own a unibody.
 
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winkosmosis

Explorer
78Bronco, the bolded is the parts of the sequence that we followed.

Put drill bit in chuck of drill, tighten with drill chuck key, plug in drill, mark your hole, center punch your hole, apply cutting fluid to bit, put on your safety glasses, is the drill plugged in still. Activate the drill b pulling the trigger. Is the drill turning clockwise? Is the drill bit from China? If yes go to store buy USA drill bit and start from beginning. OK good, USA bit. Position drill bit, make sure its square to face you are drilling through, start turning the bit. Are there chips yet...you get the idea. They don;t need to put this stuff in the instructions.
The bits I have are American ones, for wood and metal.

The instructions ironically do say obvious things, like "drill perpendicular to the skid plate".:chef:
Why say that if it's assumed that you already know how to install a skid plate?

In any case, should I try the new Ace bits I got with cutting oil for the remaining holes? I bought a high torque drill that maxes out at just 900rpm, so I'm wondering if that will be a big improvement since I can now go slow without bogging down. Otherwise, I need to order some cobalt bits, because hardware stores apparently don't sell them in 6" length.
 
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winkosmosis

Explorer
I drilled the last 2 holes in the crossmember as an experiment. I used the Ace bits with the Cut-Ease crayon... No problems. Don't know if I should try the same method on the remaining uniframe holes though. The other thing is though, the Skil drill I got has a wobbling chuck. I need to return/exchange it.
 
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BlueBomber

Adventurer
come on guys, lets not bash the n00bie too bad. we have all had times when we started a job would be super easy.....then reality sets in.
 

DPGDirk

New member
Wow...

Let me start by apologizing for my attitude in my original post.
I have bad days too, and the last thing I want to see at the end of a long day is someone calling me dishonest or misleading.

That just doesn't give me the "warm fuzzies" at all.
Could I have been nicer? Yes.
I'm human too and I'm sorry if I offended you.

That aside, the info I posted was correct.

Wink, in all the years I've been selling these skidplates, you are the FIRST I can recall who's ever come up with issues like this. Hundreds of people have installed these plates and I don't recall any of them calling or posting about how hard it is.
Like I said, we install those skids in half an hour. The drilling process is fast and easy.

I stand by my original info on the uni-body. It's mild steel. I've seen rubberized undercoating on these uni-bodies and after some years, it does get harder, but it is not some hard un-drillable surface.
Dull, low quality bits will sure make it seem like it though, as the bit just walks across the surface, rather than cutting through.
I've had a couple of people (LITERALLY) over the years tell me that they had a hard time drilling through the uni-body, but they knew right then that their bits were no good. They went and bought new bits and all was golden.

I wasn't being sarcastic about having a shop do it if it's too much work.
Some situations would be just easier that way. I do agree that you might as well finish at this point though.
There's a huge deal being made here over the drill bits. My position remains that (as a few others have posted) there should be a certain degree of foreknowledge that anyone should have before undertaking certain projects.

If you're going to be drilling into steel, you should know which bits are appropriate for the task. If you don't, it's going to be a longer, more frustrating process for you if you are determined to continue.

The job doesn't require any exotic, super elite, unobtanium bits.
You just have to get good quality bits that can drill through steel. There are MANY different brands out there. I'm not going to try to list all the steel cutting bits available in the USA today in our instructions.

We could write our instructions out in so much detail that it would be a book.
Most of us men get waaay too much detail explained from the women in our lives- we don't want to read through pages of details on minutia in our skidplate instructions!:coffee:
I believe our instructions are very thorough and explain the process well.

Lastly, I also agree that you could have simply called me when you were having trouble. I am involved with technical discussions with my customers on a daily basis and with shops doing suspension installs too.
I could have easily steered you the right direction and this whole issue could have been avoided.

Some may not like all my answers here, but I'm not trying to be politically correct.
I will tell you the truth about what works and what doesn't based on my experience. Most people appreciate that and don't want sugar coated dialog.

Hope the rest of the install goes well and you can get back to jeepin!:victory:
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
get good drill bits from a welding equipment shop or from Fastenal.

drilling over head through a frame is a pain in the ********. take your time, sharpen your bits and have a nice cold pepsi.:Mechanic:
 

toledotimber

Observer
It's not true that I wouldn't buy it again. I definitely would, because it's one of only 3 full width skids. One is the TNT, which is 2x the price and is narrower on the right side. The other is the JCR which is heavier 1/4" steel http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1006441

I'd just want more information on what bits to use. Will see if I can find boron ones tomorrow.

Actually, there's also this one. http://www.quadratec.com/products/image_zoom.php?img=/Assets/Photos/p17644c.jpg It's by Tomken and is about $90.

There is, in most later-model XJs, a hard, dark gray or black material inside parts of the framerails. I don't know what its purpose was, but on mine it was easy to jam a screwdriver in a hole and knock/chisel it out of the way.
 
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