Future Toyota 4x4s for the US Market

[Bill Beers]

...Crash tests are only a guesstimate anyways.

Crash tests maybe, but statisics aren't a guesstimate:

1959 motor vehicle deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled - 5.17
2009 motor vehicle deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled - 1.15


1959 total drivers in US - ~84.5 million.
2009 total drivers in US - ~209.6 million.

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/summary95/dl201.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

 

[Clutch]

I am chuckling a little about the debate of old vs. new. For the U.S. market the new vehicles may be better but this is an overlanding and expedition website where some of us get outside of the lower 48. Take you're shiny new computer controlled vehicle to a mechanic in Latin America and chances are it will "loose" come of it's computer control (Latin America is light years ahead of Africa). I've lived in Guatemala for five years and I've seen this repeatedly.

In an expedition setting where you will get off the beaten path and out of the lower 48 I think your best bet is a vehicle which is not computer controlled if possible. A mechanical injection diesel makes much more sense than a fuel injected gasoline engine.

For 3rd world countries yeah I can see where simpler is better, developed world not so much. Then again...I wouldn't hesitate taking a brand new HiLux/70 series/ or even a Tacoma around the World, they are super reliable won't have to worry too "much" about breaking them down. I haven't heard of too many problems with the computers as a whole (at least in the Toyotas)...or maybe I am not looking hard enough. From the sound of things most problems with the Ford are mechanical, and yeah Ford should address those issues. The HiLux & LC70's seem to do fine over there, right? and they have a modern drivetrain.

That fella Containerized feels comfortable with a modern vehicle in Africa, heck, says you can even get 93 octane over there, can't even get that in AZ.

I would be real curious of what problems the 4WD rental companies in Africa and OZ have with their rental fleet, as most rent out modern vehicles. I would think
those vehicles would take a pounding being rentals and all.

http://www.bushtrackers.co.za/hire.html

 

[jfj]

While I am not a U.S. resident, I think Toyota will never go back to its basic design (Series 40, 60 and 70) for its future vehicles there. The market is limited if the target are just the offroaders Those who do not use their rigs to explore the beaten tracks would always prefer comfort and good looks over functionality. I have always maintained that an offroad vehicle should have more trucklike features instead of making it look like a car.


I recall the time when Toyota first announced that it would be making a new rig in the mold of the old Series 40 to satisfy those who yearn for nostalgia. What we got instead was the FJ Cruiser which is radically different even in terms of appearance from the Series 40. But where do you see most of the FJ Cruisers, of course not on trails; yet there are a lot of them driven on the highways. Like what has been said elsewhere under this topic, the design of the vehicle is dictated by what the market wants and since our community is not big enough, we should not expect Toyota to build a 4x4 which would suit our taste.

 

[brussum]

JFJ-I think the frustration (at least on my part) is that Toyota does currently make the vehicles we want (70 series, HiLux, diesel power, etc). They're just not imported to the USA, nor are we allowed to import them at our own expense. There are a multitude of reasons, but it still leaves me a little irked. Especially when you go to SEMA or the AUSA convention and see these vehicles all tricked out.

 

[cruiser guy]

Crash tests maybe, but statisics aren't a guesstimate:

1959 motor vehicle deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled - 5.17
2009 motor vehicle deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled - 1.15


1959 total drivers in US - ~84.5 million.
2009 total drivers in US - ~209.6 million.

Not disputing that roads are safer today than 50 years ago but it is also a lot to do with the roads, regulations and all those things too. I think the vehicle itself, 50 years ago, was a much stronger machine, I didn't say reliable, I said stronger. They were also serviceable in your driveway without a code reader and all the rest of that crap.

For 3rd world countries yeah I can see where simpler is better, developed world not so much. Then again...I wouldn't hesitate taking a brand new HiLux/70 series/ or even a Tacoma around the World, they are super reliable won't have to worry too "much" about breaking them down. I haven't heard of too many problems with the computers as a whole (at least in the Toyotas)...or maybe I am not looking hard enough. From the sound of things most problems with the Ford are mechanical, and yeah Ford should address those issues. The HiLux & LC70's seem to do fine over there, right? and they have a modern drivetrain.

That fella Containerized feels comfortable with a modern vehicle in Africa, heck, says you can even get 93 octane over there, can't even get that in AZ.

I would be real curious of what problems the 4WD rental companies in Africa and OZ have with their rental fleet, as most rent out modern vehicles. I would think
those vehicles would take a pounding being rentals and all.

http://www.bushtrackers.co.za/hire.html

A lot of the vehicle rentals in Africa are complete with driver, cost WAY more than at home because they KNOW the vehicle will take a pounding.

Most Toyota's are essentially "world" vehicles. Even the Tacoma which is made for the U.S. market is exported around the world as a used vehicle. What you find in the the "modern" vehicles that are brought in to the developing world is that they are often converted to carburators because the mechanic can't get his head around the computerized fuel injection. Let's face it, if you work hard enough you can bypass the computers in modern vehicles if you really want to. It won't make it run better but it will run if you can't deal with the computer issues.

 

[Clutch]

A lot of the vehicle rentals in Africa are complete with driver, cost WAY more than at home because they KNOW the vehicle will take a pounding.

Didn't know they came with a driver. I wouldn't like that nary a bit!

Most Toyota's are essentially "world" vehicles. Even the Tacoma which is made for the U.S. market is exported around the world as a used vehicle. What you find in the the "modern" vehicles that are brought in to the developing world is that they are often converted to carburators because the mechanic can't get his head around the computerized fuel injection. Let's face it, if you work hard enough you can bypass the computers in modern vehicles if you really want to. It won't make it run better but it will run if you can't deal with the computer issues.

Yeah, same reason I ride carbed 2-Stroke dirt bikes, but am anxious for the DI technology to come. A lot of benefits, and still relatively simple. Be able to tune it with a
smart phone...sure a little more complex, think benefits out weigh the cons. Less emissions, more power, better fuel economy, use less oil, no more premixing.

 

[Toyotero]

I'd like to see just how offset that collision is and I'd like to see it from the other side. It's not a direct frontal crash. If it's set for the 2009 to miss the frame rails of the 1959, (remember the frame rails are probably 18" or more in from the side of the vehicle) then the '2009 will come out the winner otherwise I'd bet on the 1959. Crash tests are only a guesstimate anyways.

Check out how it goes for the driver of the Bell Air at ~ 0:50

 

[thedjjack]

1959 cars did not have seat belts would also play into the stats (also cars on the road in 1959 would not be 1959 model year cars some did not have safety glass)...

I drive motorcycles...feel safe enough in my trucks. in my Delica L300 I get to the accident a few seconds before the motor...I sit in the crumple zone and my previous FC170 (Willys) was the same...

If I wanted to be safe I would stay home seat belted on the couch...

In time the current Toyota ECU will fail...the current capacitors are not well made (and manufactures do not care about stuff failing 15 years after they sale it (they only need it to last as long as public opinion feels it should)...

I love the Toyota sitting at the Docks going to the mines to be off highway trucks...Luckily I can import 15 year old rigs from other countries...Interesting level of FREEDOM?