FYI Fake defender for sale

[DiscoDavis]

Heads up someone is trying to pass off a 1988 Santana station wagon as a "Land Rover Defender". For $65,000. No mention of santana at all. Several mentions of LAND ROVER, DEFENDER.

https://www.defendersource.com/foru...be-a-1988-defender-151614.html#post1919688980
Defendersource thread

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/1988-land-rover-defender/6692962505.html
Craigslist post

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...692962505.html
Craigslist post

If you're asking yourself well "how do you know it isn't a defender?", few things.

>has leaf springs, (no defender has leafs)
>side wing indicators are wrong (santana)
>front indicators are wrong (santana)
>headlamp surrounds are wrong (santana)
>has double sets of alpine windows (defender is single set)
>can tell wrong axles (basically series axles is what santana has), and hubs (drive member is a 6 bolt with small cap, defender is 5 bolt. etc.

Shame on this guy.

 

[mnewxcv]

What is a Santana station wagon? It looks very much like a defender. I trust your expertise, but is a Santana valuable if it is that similar to a defender?

 

[dreadlocks]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santana_Motor

The Santana Motor Company ended its agreement with Land Rover in 1983 but continued to develop its own range of vehicles which remained visually similar to Land Rover's series and Defender range.

 

[DiscoDavis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santana_Motor

Santana is a Spanish company that basically started with CKD kits of Series Land Rovers and the like, then had licenses to produce their own vehicles for their local and then some central/south american markets. In some cases they were almost the same and in others they did their own thing, changed parts, used different motors from leyland etc. The later they get the more they went their own way (not necessarily a bad thing at all, I have heard anecdotally that more recent models are just fine cars).

They more or less looked just like Land Rover's versions up to the Series III, and then there was the Series IV which looks similar to the 90/110 style Land Rover, but you can start to see obvious differences.

Here is another 1988 santana (series IV)
http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/la...109-lhd-4x4-7-pass-5-spd-4-cyl-diesel-fl.html

Value is an interesting question, a bit subjective. What I think is they are hard to justify being priced like a defender. They don't share parts which is a huge issue (if anyone thought defender parts were hard to get.... try a weird Spanish car that nobody knows about). His price is high regardless, if it was a defender it would still be barely pushing maybe 25k given its condition.

The worst bit is he has to KNOW it isn't a defender.

 

[nieb15]

Anyone try contacting the guy yet?

 

[Howski]

You could keep yourself very busy if you tried to find every Santana listed as a Defender. I’ve seen this a thousand times. Buyer beware

 

[rlynch356]

He should just say its a Santana and still ask 65k... nothing wrong there.
I mean good luck but no foul.. to the in the know its not a defender to someone who doesn’t care (most of them BTW) its a Defender (even the 110’s and the 90’s which are pre-defender Land Rover products.) if he improves his ad copy he could probably sell it at near ask.. not to anyone i know or who knows them but still there’s a butt for every seat.

He’s been told btw.. by the local guys there. But who knows maybe he gets lucky and someone wants it for the defender style.... I’d wheel with it or help him.

Come to think of it a 2WD option would be kinda cool on a Defender y

 

[DiscoDavis]

Anyone try contacting the guy yet?

Yes, didn't return an email.

 

[DiscoDavis]

You could keep yourself very busy if you tried to find every Santana listed as a Defender. I’ve seen this a thousand times. Buyer beware

Haven't seen one this heinous yet. I still will try and find them, no excuse really for people to get away with this.

 

[DiscoDavis]

He should just say its a Santana and still ask 65k... nothing wrong there.
I mean good luck but no foul.. to the in the know its not a defender to someone who doesn’t care (most of them BTW) its a Defender (even the 110’s and the 90’s which are pre-defender Land Rover products.) if he improves his ad copy he could probably sell it at near ask.. not to anyone i know or who knows them but still there’s a butt for every seat.

He’s been told btw.. by the local guys there. But who knows maybe he gets lucky and someone wants it for the defender style.... I’d wheel with it or help him.

Come to think of it a 2WD option would be kinda cool on a Defender y

If he's been told what's what then thats even lower. It's willful misrepresentation.

You and I both know if he was clear about the car he would not get 65k for it. Its a hodge podge of parts from various cars, not a clean untouched import or a smart restoration of an actual Ninety/One-Ten/Defender. You can get $40k clean early 90s 110s now. That are actual Land Rovers. And equating santana/defender distinction with defender/ninety/oneten is laughable. One is a different car, one is a name change and new engine options....

He literally says in the ad that the power steering is unbalanced among other things. must be worth 65k lol.... Whoever says they do not care about santana v defender is kidding themselves right up to the point when they need to get parts to fix their $65k purchase...

That isn't to say Santana's aren't OK. One fellow on here has one, and if I recall correctly he knew what he was getting into. And he definitely did not pay $65k. And IMO it was better quality than this guy's.

Can I remind everyone that the asking price is SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS? Not rupees, not rubles, not rand. US DOLLARS.

 

[Bobzdar]

If he's been told what's what then thats even lower. It's willful misrepresentation.

You and I both know if he was clear about the car he would not get 65k for it. Its a hodge podge of parts from various cars, not a clean untouched import or a smart restoration of an actual Ninety/One-Ten/Defender. You can get $40k clean early 90s 110s now. That are actual Land Rovers. And equating santana/defender distinction with defender/ninety/oneten is laughable. One is a different car, one is a name change and new engine options....

He literally says in the ad that the power steering is unbalanced among other things. must be worth 65k lol.... Whoever says they do not care about santana v defender is kidding themselves right up to the point when they need to get parts to fix their $65k purchase...

That isn't to say Santana's aren't OK. One fellow on here has one, and if I recall correctly he knew what he was getting into. And he definitely did not pay $65k. And IMO it was better quality than this guy's.

Can I remind everyone that the asking price is SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS? Not rupees, not rubles, not rand. US DOLLARS.

I haven't seen a Defender station wagon for 40's for a clean one, at least not in the US. Maybe for an S3, but Defender wagons are super expensive here. 2 door 110's and 90's, sure, but not wagons.

One cool thing on these Santanas is the top - the double Safari windows were never on an S3 or Defender. I have one that I want to put on my s3 2 door, but it'd require a Defender windscreen which are tough to get hold of here.

 

[DiscoDavis]

I haven't seen a Defender station wagon for 40's for a clean one, at least not in the US. Maybe for an S3, but Defender wagons are super expensive here. 2 door 110's and 90's, sure, but not wagons.

One cool thing on these Santanas is the top - the double Safari windows were never on an S3 or Defender. I have one that I want to put on my s3 2 door, but it'd require a Defender windscreen which are tough to get hold of here.

Must have not been looking that hard. Seen several go for 40 and below in the last year and a half. 5 door SW in good shape. All light years cleaner than this. And I bet their power steering works too...

I would trade double alpine windows for an actual working car that uses standardized parts in a heartbeat. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Bobzdar]

Must have not been looking that hard. Seen several go for 40 and below in the last year and a half. 5 door SW in good shape. All light years cleaner than this. And I bet their power steering works too...

I would trade double alpine windows for an actual working car that uses standardized parts in a heartbeat. Maybe that's just me.

So would I. There was a company in VA importing clean santana's for 10-15k a year ot two ago, so this price is insane for one. I'd rather (and have) an s3, which can be had for 20k ish for a nice 5 door.

 

[DiscoDavis]

Yeah for sure I would way have a series III instead, or even a Series II.

 

[Wildcat]

i dont have anything to say about the car itself. my observation is that this seller is asking 65k and he put up four pictures in the ad and repeated the same pics tree times. seems fishy.