Gas vs Diesel Shootout in the Dunes & Sand

[Regcabguy]

Looks like another vote for gas.

The US Can't Make Enough Fuel and There's No Fix in Sight

(Bloomberg) -- From record gasoline prices to higher airfares to fears of diesel rationing ahead, America’s runaway energy market is disquieting both US travelers and the wider economy. But the chief driver isn’t high crude prices or even the rebound in demand: It’s simply too few refineries...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[calicamper]

Not so quick, ever been to Dubai? Sand capital of the world, LOTS of petrol rigs.

Yeah and they all strip em empty to dune race??.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Not so quick, ever been to Dubai? Sand capital of the world, LOTS of petrol rigs.

Sand capital of the world is it?
I have been overanding (not playing in the sand pit ) in the northern Sahara in Libya, and they choose diesels (Toyotas) too.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[nickw]

Sand capital of the world is it?
I have been overanding (not playing in the sand pit ) in the northern Sahara in Libya, and they choose diesels (Toyotas) too.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Fair enough....but why? Fuel economy, parts availability, serviceability? You can't tell me a n/a 1HZ is going to out perform a modern petrol V8.

Don't get me started about a certain someone who had an issue or two with his Mercedes diesel out there ?

I think the same certain someone cut his teeth exploring the Sahara in a petrol FC, seem to work just fine.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

You can't tell me a n/a 1HZ is going to out perform a modern petrol V8.

They will both drive through sand and my choice for an overjlanding vehicle (not a toy) would be the na 1HZ by a big margin.
Why? first it is a diesel and second I can probably make it go if it stops. No way I can do that with a modern petrol V8.

How a vehicle is powered and how much power it has is a minor consideration in terms of its ability to drive in sand. In fact, more power generally leads to more track damage which is a common problem with those less experienced in sand.
The choice of petrol Vs diesel is more about all of the other issues listed.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[nickw]

They will both drive through sand and my choice for an overjlanding vehicle (not a toy) would be the na 1HZ by a big margin.
Why? first it is a diesel and second I can probably make it go if it stops. No way I can do that with a modern petrol V8.

How a vehicle is powered and how much power it has is a minor consideration in terms of its ability to drive in sand. In fact, more power generally leads to more track damage which is a common problem with those less experienced in sand.
The choice of petrol Vs diesel is more about all of the other issues listed.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I get that and would agree, if my life depended on it, I'd prefer a simple engine. I'd take a carbed petrol 3f over a modern electronic diesel though too, if I had to choose.

The original question posed was more of a performance based one.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

The original question posed was more of a performance based one.

Then you need to define "performance".
From my perspective performance has nothing to do with speed, it is about reliability, maintaining progress, minimising damage to the vehicle and the environment.......and ...... and ....
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[nickw]

Then you need to define "performance".
From my perspective performance has nothing to do with speed, it is about reliability, maintaining progress, minimising damage to the vehicle and the environment.......and ...... and ....
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

It's not necessarily speed in my mind either.

You keep bringing up damage to environment, surely we'd all be on foot or camel it that was a top priority...not huge 4x4s.

Here domestically, where we offroad in dunes, there are OHV designated areas we can drive. Even with the heavy 4x4 traffic, come back after a heavy wind, no signs of 4x4 tracks.

 

[bartheil]

Not so quick, ever been to Dubai? Sand capital of the world, LOTS of petrol rigs.

- In Dubai, diesel is mostly seen as something for work trucks/lorries, used by laborers. So it's also a status issue.
- Very little "overlanding" in Dubai but a lot of off-roading. Most people play in the sand aka trying to run their SUVs and trucks up as high as possible on the dunes. They want low weight, high speed and large desert tires with low pressure. Never heard of anyone using low gearing in the sand. That's for the wadis and the mountains.
- My best off-roading in Dubai, Abu Dhabi (the real sand capital of the UAE) and Oman was in a 1999 Toyota RAV4. 2 liter 5-gear stick shift.It would beat the big Landcruisers at the traffic lights and did great in the mountains and the sand. The only downsides were small tires (held it back in the sand) and the all-wheel drive meant I always needed to engage the center Dif lock to get traction.
- The RAV4 wouldn't make it high up the big dunes, but when "overlanding", you usually go around them anyways.

- The big USA pick up trucks are getting more popular here, though. (Especially the Raptor)

 

[nickw]

- In Dubai, diesel is mostly seen as something for work trucks/lorries, used by laborers. So it's also a status issue.
- Very little "overlanding" in Dubai but a lot of off-roading. Most people play in the sand aka trying to run their SUVs and trucks up as high as possible on the dunes. They want low weight, high speed and large desert tires with low pressure. Never heard of anyone using low gearing in the sand. That's for the wadis and the mountains.
- My best off-roading in Dubai, Abu Dhabi (the real sand capital of the UAE) and Oman was in a 1999 Toyota RAV4. 2 liter 5-gear stick shift.It would beat the big Landcruisers at the traffic lights and did great in the mountains and the sand. The only downsides were small tires (held it back in the sand) and the all-wheel drive meant I always needed to engage the center Dif lock to get traction.
- The RAV4 wouldn't make it high up the big dunes, but when "overlanding", you usually go around them anyways.

- The big USA pick up trucks are getting more popular here, though. (Especially the Raptor)

Thanks.

Yeah I've seen and heard from folks that live there the American trucks are a thing...not surprising, rigs like Raptors and TRXs do amazing. From what I've seen on YouTube, there are some big $$ sand rigs custom made in the states and shipped over also.

 

[Betarocker]

Didn't this thread start by asking about Driving on sand? Now in post #58 it is about winning on sand. This is a forum for Overlanding, not sandrailing. I hope you can see where the confusion might arise from.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

You keep bringing up damage to environment, surely we'd all be on foot or camel it that was a top priority...not huge 4x4s.
Here domestically, where we offroad in dunes, there are OHV designated areas we can drive. Even with the heavy 4x4 traffic, come back after a heavy wind, no signs of 4x4 tracks.

We have places where people "play" in the dunes too, and I agree that provided they stay away from areas that are growing vegitation, little if any damage occurs.
On the other hand we have thousands of km of sand tracks that cross dunes and those tracks suffer badly with innapropriate driving techniques. The Canning Stock Route and the Simpson Desert are notable, but there are many other shorter ones too.
The Simpson is about 700km from west to east and crosses some 1100 sand dunes. That track is deteriorating more every year. It is not hard to see why.



Notice the scolloping and the depth of the erosion in the soft sections here...


Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[nickw]

We have places where people "play" in the dunes too, and I agree that provided they stay away from areas that are growing vegitation, little if any damage occurs.
On the other hand we have thousands of km of sand tracks that cross dunes and those tracks suffer badly with innapropriate driving techniques. The Canning Stock Route and the Simpson Desert are notable, but there are many other shorter ones too.
The Simpson is about 700km from west to east and crosses some 1100 sand dunes. That track is deteriorating more every year. It is not hard to see why.



Notice the scolloping and the depth of the erosion in the soft sections here...


Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

What are the rules for driving out there? Can you make your own tracks? I see videos of folks crossing desert in Aus making own tracks to explore.

 

[nickw]

We have places where people "play" in the dunes too, and I agree that provided they stay away from areas that are growing vegitation, little if any damage occurs.
On the other hand we have thousands of km of sand tracks that cross dunes and those tracks suffer badly with innapropriate driving techniques. The Canning Stock Route and the Simpson Desert are notable, but there are many other shorter ones too.
The Simpson is about 700km from west to east and crosses some 1100 sand dunes. That track is deteriorating more every year. It is not hard to see why.



Notice the scolloping and the depth of the erosion in the soft sections here...


Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Deteriorating tracks make for some fun driving, these boys look like they are having fun at full throttle

 

[nickw]

Randomly found another one's of that guys videos and he does seem to agree, very sim to what I've been saying, that Petrol works a bit better in sand.

Don't necessarily agree with torque/stalling thing here in the US which is largely irrelevant with automatics and big block gas engines, but the concept of lack of low end power in lighter duty manual rigs is fair.