Gen 2/2.5 Pajero/Montero Front Ball Joint Flip - Good or bad?

[CharlieNorth]

Well, it does affect wheel geometry, it gives you more neg camber when compressed and messes up the factory wheel alignement settings,

The camber goes positive on compression, not negative.

 

[Herdwick]

Depends where it sits on ride height and if you use spacer with the fliped joint. It's specific on the build I guess.

 

[CharlieNorth]

Some of us have 50 years of experience working with, designing and modifying suspensions. And you have how much?
My remark refers to a raised Montero with spaced upper joints during normal driving conditions.

 

[Herdwick]

Not much, but I trust my milliken and gillespie textbooks much more than a random dude on the net. If in doubt I go and check.

But can you elaborate on the matter,
as to why?
My thought is that as the upper arm sits higher at the steering knuckle and no longer in parallel with lca, the distance from the pivot point gets shorter faster as it moves through the arc than lca which is flatter to begin with, causing the negative camber when the wheel compresses. My paj isn't lifted and thats how it looks like, but I might be wrong

 

[CharlieNorth]

I have had these reference materials since you were born. More than a dozen other books on the subject as well as making my living at this. I have no fath is anyone who tries to be an ex-spurt and has only read a book they do not understand.
On a Montero that is raised at all the upper arm rarely swings above level, this being the outer most extent of it's travel. The reference books hold no bearing in this application.

 

[Herdwick]

The only self proclaimed IEoE here is the guy who jumped to say he is an expert on the subject and somehow I have to take it at face value, while no one asked him of his credentials, if you are done with ******** swinging just offer something usefull to the discussion instead of playing the expert. And textbooks are always relevant. That's the subject of them.

 

[PacS14]

The only self proclaimed IEoE here is the guy who jumped to say he is an expert on the subject and somehow I have to take it at face value, while no one asked him of his credentials, if you are done with ******** swinging just offer something usefull to the discussion instead of playing the expert. And textbooks are always relevant. That's the subject of them.

Man a few people already mentioned why it's a bad idea on this specific platform, I have not read a single one explaining how it is a good thing to do on our specific vehicles with the type of IFS, and while I don't know Charlie on a personal level reading his build thread and seeing some of his work I would say he knows a thing or two way above me. I get it you want actual pros and cons, well I've read cons, seems no one here has done that or won't admit to trying it. That would be all I would need to know, but if you are still not satisfied with that answer go for it and report back what the result was if you don't mind. Sometimes you just gotta take one for the team.
Reading back it was you the one that pointed the negative which to me sounded pretty bad compared to the only positive of being slightly better articulation.

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Wow,
we need to get back on track here,
I started this thread to learn and get some insight, no need for people going at each other, just need useful and practical information.

So again.

What to people stand to gain doing the ball joint flip, and what do they stand to loose? Pros vs cons? Positives vs negatives?
What are the reasons people should or shouldn't do it?

I would just like to learn.

Thanks!?

 

[Salonika]

My Montero is a mall crawler so I don’t understand any of this stuff.

 

[CharlieNorth]

Spacing the upper ball joint down allows for more droop travel. With the Tbars cranked the front ride height can be topped out with resulting crappy ride manners.

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Spacing the upper ball joint down allows for more droop travel. With the Tbars cranked the front ride height can be topped out with resulting crappy ride manners.

Thanks ?

so what is the negative effect of spacing the upper ball joint downwards? Anything dangerous as oppose to its intended position?

 

[CharlieNorth]

As long as the hardware used is top quality there is no negitive, I will be and need to do this in my Pajero. I may get the spacers ordered soon to do so.

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

As long as the hardware used is top quality there is no negitive, I will be and need to do this in my Pajero. I may get the spacers ordered soon to do so.

That's great to hear, if you don't min, please keep me posted as that develops, would love to see the outcome and what it takes to be done, thanks!

By top quality hardware, do you mean grade 10.9 fasteners or would 8.8 suffice?

 

[CharlieNorth]

Will do

 

[Herdwick]

I'll start tomorrow building mine as well I'll do the rear first then move up front, allready ordered the ball joint spacers, you gonna have at least two builds as a reference. Mine is a gen 1 and swapping gen2 drivetrain over, hope to get it sorted in a few weekends!