GEN 3: No Compression?

[2to4wheels]

I mean, why not, let me '06 drama continue. Before I get into it, I'm a bit discouraged at this point. Searched for a year, found a clean Gen 3 with great service records and now this. So what is this? You can see my previous threads below but all has been well recently. Driving and running fine other than the CEL codes I was going to track down.

The scenario. I've been traveling since last Wednesday. Got off the plane, took my Uber home, and then grabbed my keys to go pick up my son from school. Cranked for about a second and then kept cranking, but not resistance. Really? Please don't tell me this is a timing issue which is the obvious. All my issues seem to happen not while driving but upon start-up. So obviously, I stopped cranking and luckily I can walk to my son's school in 5 minutes. Tomorrow going to pull off the driver side cam cover to look at the tension on the belt and I guess we'll go from there.

But seriously, the most un-reliable vehicle I've had. Hate to see one that wasn't taken care of.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/164197-Still-New-To-Me-Gen-3-Won-t-Start

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/166258-Multiple-Fault-Codes-Thoughts?

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Yikes, hate to say it but it may be the timing belt. Can't recall if you changed it yourself or not?

 

[2to4wheels]

i did change it myself 4 months ago.

 

[offthepath]

Hate to hear that.

If I recall you had it out of time the first time the new belt went on? A rapid ticking in time with RPM when it was ran?

If so I can guarantee to it is related to the valves from the mistake on the first install or there was something amiss the 2nd time it was re-installed.

Tear it down to the timing belt, see what the problem is. Hopefully there is no mechanical damage but I'd be prepared for the worst.

Sorry.......

 

[2to4wheels]

There has been nothing amiss as far as how the truck has been running since we corrected the belt during the original install. Been running smooth...when it runs.

Hoping that since it wasn't running and as as soon as I heard it, I stopped cranking, there won't be damage.

But if there is, what am I looking at? May just be getting towed (via AAA)...

 

[offthepath]

I may be being pessimistic so I don't want to get you down. ****ty situation all around as I followed your search for a monty when was looking too....

However, if it was out of time and there was a rhythmic tapping that is bad. Especially with an interference engine. May not have been the valves hitting the piston, but it very well could have been too. Given this I really feel your no start problem was an early symptom of this current issue that is directly related to the timing belt change problems.

Even if the engine seemed fine it may not mean much, they are odd creatures and given enough heat cycles and stress fractures things can eventually happen to damaged metal. Im guessing over all there were not many miles since the timing belt change, probably no more than 1k-2k? It can take time for damaged parts to fail. I have had a few engines fail and one ran the best it ever had for 10 min or so before it seized. Who knows:Wow1:

I'd say best case is the timing belt failed, or some component of that (i.e. crank pulley, cam pulley fell off, etc), worst case is that 1 or more valves broke, or are no longer seating from being bent/warped.

Curious to hear what the out come is.

Hang in there. I've re-done my fair share of mechanical jobs and Im sure I still have some left, we all do

 

[2to4wheels]

Just briefly this morning before work I pulled off the driver side cam cover since it comes off without taking anything else off. The belt is still as taught as can be but since I pretty much have until the new year before I really need a car, I am going to tear it all down and double check the timing since I suppose it could jumped a tooth or two...but would that kill my compression? I guess I'll start with confirming the timing since though it will take some time and I have no garage (brrrr) but it's easy enough.\

What I can assume by the quick diagnostic this morning is that the belt is in tact and appears to have plenty of tension.

 

[offthepath]

One other suggestion, are you sure the engine was turning? Could the starter just be spinning and not engaging the flywheel?

 

[coffeegoat]

My experience with a bad start solenoid (spinning but not engaging the flywheel) is it sounds completely different and you know immediately that it didn't engage. My old Nissan used to do that on occasion and it would rev up in a high pitched whine, obviously not cranking at all...

 

[2to4wheels]

at this point, I'm just going to confirm timing as step 1. honestly, it happened so quick last night that i immediately turned the key off. a bit paranoid at this point as I am sure you can imagine, I don't want to turn that key until I confirm timing.

 

[2to4wheels]

Quick question. I've started tearing things down between meetings! I work from home so that helps. Once I get the accessory bracket off, will I need to remove the crank bolt/pully to check the TDC? Hoping to not have the pull it if I don't have to though I do still have my homemade tool if I need to.

 

[2to4wheels]

So I've got everything off the front of the engine except the crank pulley and lower cover. Tension on the belt feels pretty good but still need to line up my marks. 2 questions.

1. What size socket is the crank bolt?

2. Do I need to pull the pully and cover to line up TDC? If so, hoping I can get it off by myself

 

[offthepath]

I want to say they do need to come off, but can't remember. Maybe someone with more experience can say for sure.

 

[Swank Force One]

I mean, why not, let me '06 drama continue. Before I get into it, I'm a bit discouraged at this point. Searched for a year, found a clean Gen 3 with great service records and now this. So what is this? You can see my previous threads below but all has been well recently. Driving and running fine other than the CEL codes I was going to track down.

The scenario. I've been traveling since last Wednesday. Got off the plane, took my Uber home, and then grabbed my keys to go pick up my son from school. Cranked for about a second and then kept cranking, but not resistance. Really? Please don't tell me this is a timing issue which is the obvious. All my issues seem to happen not while driving but upon start-up. So obviously, I stopped cranking and luckily I can walk to my son's school in 5 minutes. Tomorrow going to pull off the driver side cam cover to look at the tension on the belt and I guess we'll go from there.

But seriously, the most un-reliable vehicle I've had. Hate to see one that wasn't taken care of.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/164197-Still-New-To-Me-Gen-3-Won-t-Start

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/166258-Multiple-Fault-Codes-Thoughts?

Sorry to hear.

We're having some pretty ugly and annoying issues with ours as well, despite getting it with a stack of records and in exemplary condition. Currently fighting a passenger front cam seal that refuses to not leak, and it's not exactly a short and fun job to get to, as you've experienced. Seriously considering ditching it after this round at the shop and getting something else. Don't need this. Getting a great value in an under-appreciated vehicle isn't such a great value if it costs $3k/yr to keep on the road.

 

[normal_dave]

So, I guess I'm always looking at the glass as "half full". (Or I've been drinking too much Montero kool-aid again...)

I've read through all the posts and priors, and am left with this thought. "get back to basics". I just have a hard time thinking you botched the timing belt job. Always verify: spark, fuel, air.

Fuel...now there's something that seems to have been an issue all the way through. Smelled fuel, won't start one time, perfectly the next, white smoke, let it sit, then it starts, stranded at school after running perfectly... (regardless of computer reset).

Fuel. Several have mentioned checking for a failing fuel pump, rubber mallet vs. tank bottom. (have you done it?):sombrero: I ran across this thread regarding lean codes, but it linked to a Technical Service Bulletin from Mitsubishi regarding the fuel regulator, and fuel filter, which of course, got me to thinking. (dangerous, depending on your point of reference).

This is all I could find referring to the TSB. Locate your fuel pressure regulator, remove the vac hose, if fuel is present on the vac hose side, you have a problem. I would turn the key to the run position, not start for a minute to be sure the fuel pump pressurizes the line to accurately test the regulator since it has been sitting. A bad fuel pressure regulator can cause your intermittent no start, flood, poor running conditions.

http://www.justanswer.com/mitsubishi/7r4eq-mitsubishi-montero-limited-2003-montero-limited-3-8-getting.html

Fuel pressure regulator looks like this: mounted on/near the fuel rail in the engine compartment.

Scroll down to post #6, but review the whole thread.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/112384-2003-Montero-Limited-3-8L-fuel-filter-and-fuel-pressure-regulator

Even a properly maintained vehicle can have issues. 140K is nothing on these trucks. A Mitsubishi dealer mechanic would likely only get to the TSB if the problem had manifested itself earlier. As "young" as your truck is, it may have not gotten there yet. Any other shop would probably be clueless to this issue. Maybe, just maybe your truck has developed this problem and the TSB will apply to you?

If you don't have any compression, you will know it. It is a fearful wheezing sound, smooth, without any bumps of attempting firing. If you are cranking with little or no fuel, you won't get the familiar "punch" of cylinders firing or attempting to. Unless you had some catastrophic timing belt failure resulting in piston to valve contact across the board, I can't "see" where you lost compression. I can see an intermittent fuel problem, or the Ignition Control Module failing/failed. (You did test it like we told you earlier didn't you?).

So, just to break the monotony, let's change gears, verify the fuel pressure regulator, and hope you find fuel in the vac line, or leaking from the regulator. Then order from RC Hill the new regulator and filter, and button up the front end and get back to driving.

Edit, forgot to answer the pulley question: pretty sure you will need to get it out of the way to see the marks on the crank gear vs the engine block:

Crank pulley socket should be 22MM (from a DougC post)
http://www.justanswer.com/mitsubishi/5693h-crankshaft-position-sensor-located-2003-montero-is-diagram.html

Good Luck