Gen3 4Runner Braking Issue! Help and Advise Needed!

[Brian McVickers]

Hi Everyone!

I'm looking for experienced advise and help on resolving this issue for good!

Vehicle: 2000 Toyota 4Runner, SR5, 4WD, 3400 V6, 205,000 miles, 16" wheels.

Problem: Pulsating Brakes

We bought this truck about 2.5 years ago with 166,000 miles on it.
It developed a pulsating brake issue which was explained as warped rotors, however from further research I believe the "warped" part can actually be pad deposits and build up sometimes. We replaced the front rotors with Brembo solid rotors and Napa high end pads. The braking issue disappeared and braking was smooth for about 1,000 miles and then it came back! We lived with it for a while but it just got worse.

Fast forward to the end of 2014.
We decided to dig into the brakes again as the pulsating braking had gotten bad enough to vibrate the front end.
We had the Brembo solid rotors turned, well within spec, we installed new Napa brand OEM replacement pads and we installed new Napa brand calipers.
We also had the rear brake drums turned and installed new Napa brand OEM replacement shoes.

The new installation drove and performed perfectly! For about 1,200 miles. Then the pulsating issue came back! When braking from anything over 30mph the brakes pulsate, the steering wheel vibrates and the dashboard shakes like it is about to fall off into my lap!

The truck has a new Icon suspension on it with new upper control arms. I would imagine that the lower control arm bushings and the tie rod ends could be due for a refresh soon but I'm not sure how their condition would account for the pulsating brake issue since the new brake installation performed perfectly for 1,200 miles.

Any thoughts on diagnosing and solving this issue?

Regards,
Brian

 

[JasonRedwood]

The 3rd gen 4runner brakes are the same brakes that they put on the single cab tacoma of the same generation I believe. They just aren't big enough to stop our suv's with out warping. I had replaced mine the day I bought my 4runner a few years back. With in a week they were pulsing again. A few months back the brakes were getting scary.
Look into upgrading to the Tundra brakes. Thats what most 3rd gen 4runner owners seem to do. I love my Tundra brake upgrade.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ements-231mm-13wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html

 

[NasaE30]

The 3rd gen 4runner brakes are the same brakes that they put on the single cab tacoma of the same generation I believe. They just aren't big enough to stop our suv's with out warping. I had replaced mine the day I bought my 4runner a few years back. With in a week they were pulsing again. A few months back the brakes were getting scary.
Look into upgrading to the Tundra brakes. Thats what most 3rd gen 4runner owners seem to do. I love my Tundra brake upgrade.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ements-231mm-13wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html

This is true and great advice. I did the same thing. Total overhaul with new pads and rotors and I've got warped rotors a couple months later.

I do have a question to those in the know. If you use a quality rotor, like OEM or BREMBO, and a pad like EBC or HAWK LTS
do you think it will be as prone to warping.

 

[JasonRedwood]

This is true and great advice. I did the same thing. Total overhaul with new pads and rotors and I've got warped rotors a couple months later.

I do have a question to those in the know. If you use a quality rotor, like OEM or BREMBO, and a pad like EBC or HAWK LTS
do you think it will be as prone to warping.

I have heard of people on T4R that had success with using those brands at stock specs you mentioned. I can't recall the link and at the time I figured I might as well upgrade since I live in the city with the worse traffic in America. Ha

 

[CYi5]

Mine is doing the exact same thing right now. Replaced with new pads and rotors, didn't solve the issue. I'm running a pretty heavy setup: Front and rear bumpers, sliders, winch, drawer system, etc. It's just weird that I never had the issue for the past 100k, now I can't get rid of it.

Tires are new, and so is the alignment. The alignment guys said they check all the components upfront before they even touch it, all checked out...shrug. I just don't want to drop $400 on Tundras only to discover it's a bad tie rod.

 

[Milo902]

How much faith do you have in your rear brakes? My experience, and that of my mechanic (he and his wife drive 3rd Gens and he works exclusively on Toyota/Lexus) is that the brakes are adequate (if not overwhelming) for a stockish truck. I have the Tundra brake upgrade on my 4Runner (done before I met him) but his recommendation is that most of these trucks are running around with improperly adjusted rear drums. Because of this they tend to over work the front brakes in short order.

Another method that may help is to bed the pads (successive hard braking from 40-60 miles an hour to transfer pad material to the rotors). This should improve braking power, feel and resist the uneven pad deposits on the rotors that is improperly referred to as warping.

Another possibility is a frozen caliper causing one brake to overheat. I just had to replace my left front (was only 2 years old, napa brand re-man) for this problem. The brakes lasted a few thousand miles before the vibration started.

My old roommate is running around with a pretty heavy extended cab taco (flip pac, winch, F/R bumpers, sleeping platform, wayyy too much gear) and his stock brakes hold up well to his speedy mountain driving pretty well. My front brakes are vibrating due to the aforementioned frozen caliper, even after having them turned. My rear are vibrating from being over-adjusted and overheating on the highway. A few bedding sessions helped a ton but the vibration is still there. I need to run through them again this winter and hopefully I get it right this time.

Just a few ideas to ponder is all. I know chasing brake vibration can be really frustrating, good luck!

 

[Mr. Leary]

Brian, the bottom line is that 4runner brakes were barely enough to stop the truck at stock weight with stock tires. Don't upgrade the stock brakes.

Install Tundra brakes. I did 231s on my truck, but 199s will probably work a little better for your build since you aren't towing all the time.

They bolt right in, but you will need to trim the dust shroud, and will have trouble fitting the stock wheels back on. This will be easier with 199mm calipers, found on earlier years of the first tundra. Which wheels do you have? Some stock wheels fit right back on, others don't, so lots of guys put 80 series wheels on after the tundra brakes.

When I had stock brakes in my 4runner, I worried that I wouldn't be able to stop fast if I needed to. With tundra brakes, the worry was gone. You will love the peace of mind. Expect more pedal travel, as the master cylinder has to move more fluid. This is normal with the upgrade and nothing to worry about.

Hope this helps.

 

[jca91374]

I had a similar issue with my 03 Tacoma and after chasing warped rotors for a very long time I discovered that the issue was two fold.

The biggest issue was that everytime anyone including myself put the wheels back it was done with either an impact or by standing on the tire iron to get them tight. This was putting unnecessary stress on the rotors and causing a major part of the warping. The other part of the problem was that my rear drums we not adjusted and the front were doing ALL the work which they are way too small to handle. I know this as I checked my shoes at about 80K and they looked almost new. I now go in and adjust them about every 5K miles and they are wearing evenly.

I learned to torque the wheels to 83 Ft Lb and keep the rears adjusted. Haven't had a warped rotor in 60K miles but the Tundra upgrade is looking promising the heavier my truck gets.

 

[Applejack]

Do the Tundra big brake swap (231mm) and problem solved. I got all my stuff from Napa for less than $300. The year before, I spent $500 on fancy expensive stock upgrades that did not do anything near as well as the Tundras do.

 

[JasonRedwood]

Do the Tundra big brake swap (231mm) and problem solved. I got all my stuff from Napa for less than $300. The year before, I spent $500 on fancy expensive stock upgrades that did not do anything near as well as the Tundras do.

Agreed

OP, you can exchange your stock 4runner calipers for the core charge on the tundra calipers... just dont say anything.

 

[98roamer]

At first I tried the stock Brembo blanks and Hawk pads but they too warped. I also upgraded to the 199mm Tundra brakes-- Brembo blanks with Hawk pads again- with Taco rims, no problem clearing them. After about 10k miles I have a slight warping. Lugs are torqued correctly and my trailer has electric brakes, (we use the popup 3-5 times a year). I've always found a soft pedal.

Are you getting even brake dust?
On snow or rain my ABS kicks in very quickly and I'm getting a lot of brake dust on the passenger rim only, so replaced the caliper but no change. I have also replaced the rubber brake lines just in case. It appears that my passenger side is doing the majority of the braking. Where both of your rotors warped or just one?

 

[ikeike]

I had the same issues with my 2000 4runner and with the added weight of all my mods I had to solve the problem with the Tundra Break conversion mentioned before! good luck!

 

[ExploringNH]

As everyone else has said, Tundra brakes are a nice upgrade and should help out. I can't say I really had any warped rotor issues on my 4Runner but when it was time for replacement, I did the Tundra brakes. Your problem sounds 100% warped rotors, nothing to do with Icon stuff. As you said, it disappeared every time you refreshed the brakes.

Turning rotors these days is just asking for them to warp. Everything is made cheaper, even Brembo.

If you don't want to do the Tundra upgrade, I would try a higher end rotor/pad setup. Power Stop gets great reviews. I never ran them on my 4Runner so I don't have first hand experience there but I have them on my Excursion on 37s and I have done several hard stops from speed with no warping. I have them on my DD as well and they have done well.

The only other thing is to look at driving style.

 

[Southpaw]

I don't think the front brakes are the issue. I had horrible brake vibration in my 1998 4Runner. I upgrade the fronts to the Tundra brakes and a short while later replaced the rear brakes. As soon as I had a few days on the new rear drums and shoes the vibration came back. It took several trips back to the dealer to get them re-adjusted trying to get them seated properly. Aparently Toyotas hate aftermarket brakes. On the final trip to the dealer, they had the rear drums adjusted so tight I could actually feel the drag on the truck. They told me to hit the highway and get the brakes really hot and just hope they seat properly. They're not perfectly smooth now, but they're a far cry from how bad they were.

Edit: I forgot to add, after every adjustment the brakes would feel fine until I put a few miles on them. Then the vibration came back, until this last time... hopefully.