Getting Back To Land Rover (aka Quixotic TD5 Swap)

[mallthus]

So, I'm seriously considering coming back to the Land Rover fold after 10 years of being Rover free. I have an ambitious goal, but I also see this as an opportunity to introduce my boys to the joys of wrenching whilst leaving me with a fun rig that's comfortable.

First off, a little context. I've had a P38 Rangey and a Disco II, both of which I liked when they ran right and neither of which ran right very often. I've also had 4 Jeep Wagoneers, which I've also liked (in some ways more than the Land Rovers). I considered doing another FSJ with the boys, but, at the end of the day, the newest FSJ is 26 years old and their design is virtually unaltered from their launch over 50 years ago. If we did a straight restoration on one, it'd be old fashioned and unreliable. If we did a restomod, done right, an AMC V8 with MPFI, it'd be ridiculously expensive and done the way most people do them, a GM V8 swap, boring.

Now, to be fair, the Disco platform dates back to the original 1970 Range Rover, but, unlike the Jeep, it's been significantly modernized. This is both good and bad. Good in that I'm going to wind up with a better vehicle, from a driving standpoint, than the best FSJ I could build. Bad in that everything is modern and therefore potentially complicated. And the real achilles heel of the Disco...the Buick V8. In my experience, they suck. The P38 could barely get out of its own way while my DII suffered a cracked block, which I replaced with what turned out to be a defective block, which I finally got swapped to a good block, but it was still slow and got crap economy.

I've considered doing a D1 with a 300Tdi, as it's a proven pair with decent support. But I've also heard the 300Tdi mill is positively agricultural. I don't mind a little diesel clatter, having had VW TDIs and a Chevy Duramax, but I don't want to be ridiculous. Mostly what I hear about the TD5 are the chorus of hisses from people who are frightened of electronics and complaints that the engine's underpowered in factory spec.

Here's my back of the napkin plan then.

• Source a clean US spec DII, ideally a carbon copy of my old 2004 HSE7.
• Source a wrecked (ideally rolled or rear-ended) LHD manual TD5 via friends in Germany.
• Remove all necessary* parts from TD5 and ship them to USA.
• Remove V8 and automatic from US spec DII.
• Rebuild and upgrade TD5 (ECU flash, 3" exhaust, etc...most sourced from Australia)
• Replace as necessary.

*Figuring out this is really my biggest challenge.

So, first off, I've seen lots of discussion board conversations around how it's not an easy swap, etc. I'm not really worried about the challenges of making the V8 computer work with the diesel since my plan is to swap out everything unique to the V8 so that there's nothing left of that drivetrain (unless it adds value).

The big thing is that I need to make sure that I've made a parts list that is complete and exhaustive because I'm only going to have one crack at stripping my yet to be found German Disco. If I don't pull it and put it in the container, I'm not going to have it when I go to build my US Disco. It's not like I can go to the local pull-a-part or Autozone for a clutch pedal hanger and I know at least a few of the parts I'll need, that are unique to LHD TD5s, won't even be easily available from UK Rover specialists.

So, first off, tell me why I'm nuts. I already know this makes no economic sense...this isn't about money.

Secondly, if you've done something like this, seen someone else do this swap, or saw a thread somewhere, share what you know.

My goal is to line things up so that I can do the swap in the spring. Once the right LHD TD5 pops up, my friends in Germany can grab it and hold it until I'm ready to strip it. Ideally I'll have my US V8 before I strip it so that I can grab any other trim, etc that might be useful. Thankfully, I'll be able to register this with my mountain cabin's address so I won't have to get it emissions tested (which it'd obviously fail).

 

[stevenmd]

Have you considered a RRC? My 94 LWB had a lot of room in it and the 4.2 had a ton of power. You could drop the 4.6 into it for even more power.

If you are set on a Disco, I'd go for DI over a DII if you're building something for mainly off road/trail. And throw in the 4.6. :smiley_drive:

I'm not a huge fan of the LR diesels on our US highways but they are pretty cool to have. I'm looking at very used Series that I'm probably going to drop a diesel into.

 

[mallthus]

I've had the Rover/Buick V8 in two different Land Rovers. I most definitely DO NOT want that engine in anything. Ever. Clearly your experience with them has been different.

For me, the diesel and manual ought to be a good fit, especially with the upgraded ECU and exhaust. I'm anticipating a meaningful increase in both torque and horsepower based on what I'm reading. Like I said, the 300tdi seems very agricultural and ill suited to my driving cycles, which include mountain highways and narrow mountain dirt tracks. I'm actually looking for a custom remapping of the TD5 that'll increase boost even more than usual, as 100% of my use will be above 6000' in altitude.

 

[stevenmd]

Have you checked out the new Cummins R2.8 diesel? I'm seriously considering it as a potential candidate for a Series 88.

 

[Ray_G]

Take a look on Discoweb, there is at least one example of this that's been done IIRC.

Does it make sense? We are talking Land Rovers so I'll set that aside. What I would note is potential longevity w/the thin frames of a Dii should be taken into account. Sourcing a good candidate truck would be worth taking into account.
R-
Ray


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[LtFuzz]

There was the one guy who put in an Isuzu 4BD (I think) diesel into a D2. If I recall correctly he did a phenomenal job but it was a nightmare build that took a couple years to finally sort out.

I agree that the new Cummins crate diesel could be the more interesting motor... but with the TD5 I imagine the swap overall will be easier. Plus tons of knowledge on the UK forums of that particular configuration.

300tdi agricultural? Naw... now a 6.2L in a DI -- THAT's agricultural! P

 

[mallthus]

Naw... now a 6.2L in a DI -- THAT's agricultural! P

I feel like I've read about someone inexplicably doing that. And yes, the 6.2 is agricultural just hanging from a hoist.


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[stevenmd]

I agree that the new Cummins crate diesel could be the more interesting motor... but with the TD5 I imagine the swap overall will be easier. Plus tons of knowledge on the UK forums of that particular configuration.

I agree about the TD5.

mallthus - whatever direction you go, please post your progress. I, as I'm sure many others are, am very interested!

 

[Victory_Overland]

If I had my way, I would get a 110 and bolt a brand new Cummins powerplant in it. Especially if I was going the plan you are talking about. Yes it's a $10k engine, but it will run until your grandkids want to take their kids to school after you handed it down four generations!

 

[KyleT]

Use an aluminum gm ls6 and 6 speed auto gearbox. Mpg will likely be low 20's and it will actually go. Compared to the 4.6, the td5 has a tiny bit more initial torque then it's a turd.

Second, it's getting creative how to ship those parts over,

Lastly read the rave and ensure you know EVERY detail of what's different. There is tons of wiring and hose routing that's not the same. I would get a clean lhd truck and break it down overseas and ship 1/4 eto 4 people you know and reassemble it using your 2004 as a base.

 

[zelatore]

Use an aluminum gm ls6 and 6 speed auto gearbox. Mpg will likely be low 20's and it will actually go. Compared to the 4.6, the td5 has a tiny bit more initial torque then it's a turd.

Second, it's getting creative how to ship those parts over,

Lastly read the rave and ensure you know EVERY detail of what's different. There is tons of wiring and hose routing that's not the same. I would get a clean lhd truck and break it down overseas and ship 1/4 eto 4 people you know and reassemble it using your 2004 as a base.

As a rule I don't wear a bow tie and I don't take orders from an Generals.

But if I didn't have to deal with the smog issues I'd be looking hard at an LS swap for my D1 anyway.

I really don't see any need to pony up for the higher-end versions when even the basic stuff can give you a stone reliable box stock 300 hp. Throw in the GM 6-speed and mate it to an LT230 and Bob's your Uncle.

Better power. Better mileage. Better reliability. And I say all this as a GM hater. The LS is cheap, readily available in a variety of sizes/output, and well supported as a popular swap into almost anything.

I know diesel is 'cool', but unless you are looking for maximum economy for ultra long range stuff I just can't make an argument for it.

 

[stevenmd]

As a rule I don't wear a bow tie and I don't take orders from an Generals.

But if I didn't have to deal with the smog issues I'd be looking hard at an LS swap for my D1 anyway.

I really don't see any need to pony up for the higher-end versions when even the basic stuff can give you a stone reliable box stock 300 hp. Throw in the GM 6-speed and mate it to an LT230 and Bob's your Uncle.

Better power. Better mileage. Better reliability. And I say all this as a GM hater. The LS is cheap, readily available in a variety of sizes/output, and well supported as a popular swap into almost anything.

I know diesel is 'cool', but unless you are looking for maximum economy for ultra long range stuff I just can't make an argument for it.

The LS is very good on mpg too. I know our Vette is much lighter than a 110 or D1 but every time we take a trip in it, I am simply amazed at the mileage we get out of a tank of gas. And I don't baby the pedal either. I drive it like the sports car it is.

 

[jymmiejamz]

If you can't keep a Rover V8 running, which is incredibly simple, then you are not qualified to take on a project of this magnitude. I'm also not sure why you would do all of this work to a Disco 2.

 

[mallthus]

If you can't keep a Rover V8 running, which is incredibly simple, then you are not qualified to take on a project of this magnitude. I'm also not sure why you would do all of this work to a Disco 2.

Early Rover V8s are, like their Buick antecedents, incredibly simple. Late Rover V8s in late Series 2 Discos are like octogenarians on life support, with a brittle old heart propped up with lots of electronics. And, like a once proud athlete, they're not really competitive with other engines available, offering up inferior power and efficiency.

But, this is my project, so whether I meet your standards for mechanical competence or not, and despite making a choice you don't concur with, it doesn't really matter what you think.


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[mallthus]

I know diesel is 'cool', but unless you are looking for maximum economy for ultra long range stuff I just can't make an argument for it.

Actually, my reasons for choosing diesel (and specifically the TD5) have nothing to do with diesel being cool.

One thing is that I plan to make my own biodiesel. I have a automated biodiesel processor I purchased cheap from a belly-up company at the height of the recession (they're about $10k new). This was to replace a fairly labor intensive Fuelmeister unit I'd run previously (when I had a VW TDI and a Chevy Duramax). I don't have access to as much used oil stock as I once did (I spent years in the fast-food biz), but I can get enough to have essentially free biodiesel, since my wife uses the glycerin offcast to make soap, which she sells for enough to pay for methanol stock and make a bit of profit. I'll certainly be able to make enough for my summer usage.

The other thing is that 95% of my usage is at or above 5000' in altitude. My house is at 6000' and my trail drives are mostly in the 8000'-13,000' range, so that already iffy V8 performance drops off precipitously with each foot I climb. With a forced induction diesel, my performance at 12,000' will be very similar to my performance at lower elevations.

I recognize that this project might seems counterintuitive to some. Recognize that I have some specific rationale for what I've chosen, which I know aren't the same as what most look at.


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