Go DSLR or just get a better P&S?

[Purple People Eater]

I'm really starting to enjoy taking pictures. The camera I use now (Fuji S700) is the first I have ever owned, and to put it lightly, is less than spectacular. There have been more than a few instances where I have taken a picture and thought, "Man, this would've been a sweet picture if it came out better." So, I'm thinking of either buying a higher end point and shoot, or an entry level DSLR. I am by no means a Lost Canadian, articulate, or Photog, but my interest has been sparked.

I guess the question I am proposing is, what is the next step for a novice such as myself? At what P&S should I look? DSLR?

 

[articulate]

Bobby, I'm humbled you'd put me in a category with those photo wizards. We're friends, so I can only give you this advice: if you go buy a fancier camera, you're still not going to be happy with your pictures. Wait . . . there's a happy ending though. The farm boy does not get murdered by pirates.

***
Let's share a story . . . I remember wanting to learn more about photography many years ago, so I bought a 35mm SLR. I just knew I'd be rocking out some great photos. But, gee, my pictures sucked. For a long time (Hey! No smartass comments . . .)

Then I learned about the functions on the camera, learned some shooting techniques, learned about exposure settings, I read books to figure out what things like ISO, bracketing, and 70-200 meant. I got a little bit better.

All I was interested in was outdoor photography. Once I learned about early morning light and late afternoon light, things really started to change rapidly. I now had mediocre pictures that passed among family as "wow, these are really really good!" That was just a trick of using pretty light, and not really a matter of my eye getting honed for better photos.

And a year ago, I moved into a Canon 5D, which is a high-ish end DSLR camera but certainly not the top of the scale. The reason I bought that camera though is not because I thought I'd get better pictures with it, but because of the features of the camera. I think that's an important point, bro.

Someone who knows how to use the features on a camera, even if it is a small P&S, can get surprisingly good results (predictable ones, too) - pictures to be proud of.

Nobody likes to hear it, but you've got to learn some techniques and learn how to use those functions on your camera to get consistent and proud results. And there is a small matter of learning some post processing because in the digital age of photography you are your own photo lab. A fancier camera doesn't have any better of an "auto mode" than a less expensive camera (arguably).

Anyway, I know we could go out one afternoon and nab some really nice photos with your S700. We could do the same if you went and bought a fancier camera, too. Let's hook up some time when Wil ain't under the gun to get his pictures shot! Seriously, bro!

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

a good point n shoot- small, light and easy to take pics with. you will get more pics and ones that you wouldn't lugging a slr.
slr's are great if you want to mix up the lenses. point n shoots have gotten really good and very reasonably priced.

 

[Gventure]

it depends on your budget

Purple - what's your budget? I have a good P&S Canon that cost $500 and I like it alot. I took a Nikon D70 through the outback of Mexico for 3 weeks in a moto tankbag and later took a Nikon D200 on the TAT for 3 weeks in a moto tank bag - both times I am very glad I had the DSLRs. They really don't weigh that much, don't take up too much room, and are more versatile than a P&S. Addtionally, for that one shot that you REALLY want, you'll want more MP and data than some P&Ss are going to give you. If you get back frm a trip and the best composed pic of the trip is off on WB or exposure, a RAW file can be saved - P&S don't shoot RAW (that I know of)

SO, what's your budget? Around $1000? Nikon D90 with video capabilities or a used Canon 50d. Around $500 - look for a Nikon D200 or Canon 30D.

Just my 2 cents worth.

G

 

[kcowyo]

The farm boy does not get murdered by pirates.

Anybody want a peanut?


Seriously THE Bobby, I believe it's about practice and experimenting. Over and over and over....

Now Mark makes an excellent point about knowing your cameras' features, but I absolutely refuse to take Mark's technical advice in regards to photography. Because to be completely honest, he has an uncanny natural talent that you can't learn from a book or hours in the bush.

Now I'm not kissing his posterior, I'm telling it like it is after spending time shooting with him in the field. It's absolutely infuriating to think you've captured a similar shot as he has, only to see it's turned out nowhere close. So sure, go cruise the desert with him. But don't bother bringing you camera, just ride shotgun and get drunk all afternoon...


I will relay two tips I got from F'n that I always remember when I'm shooting -

1. Get closer
2. When you're shooting a beautiful sunset, turn around


My disclaimer - I'm eyeball deep in the hunt for my first DSLR, primarily because I feel I've done what I can with my P&S, and I'm curious to see what I can do with real glass and improved software. I won't be surprised if the results are similar to what I'm getting now for the first year or so until I too, learn my new cameras' features.


Have a nice day.
.

 

[articulate]

But don't bother bringing you camera, just ride shotgun and get drunk all afternoon...

As long as you bring your own drink.

BTW, #2 is actually advice I'm relaying from the late Galen Rowell.

F'n out.

 

[Purple People Eater]

Anybody want a peanut?

How about a swift kick in the gonads, KC?

Okay, maybe I should add to the title of this thread "or just learn to use what I have and stop being an envious butthole?". In all honesty, and this is no joke, I bought my camera a couple years ago because *gulp* it looked like a SLR. I was shocked when the results weren't worthy of National Geographic. I have started to play with light and angles and whatnot, but I just can't seem to bring out the clarity I'm looking for, or the right colors. I mean, I guess I've shot some pictures that are worth a damn (and I'll be the judge of that thank you very much), but you can just tell they were shot by some poor shmuck pretending to be an artist.

So sure, go cruise the desert with him. But don't bother bringing you camera, just ride shotgun and get drunk all afternoon...

That doesn't sound like fun at all...

Anyway, I know we could go out one afternoon and nab some really nice photos with your S700. We could do the same if you went and bought a fancier camera, too. Let's hook up some time when Wil ain't under the gun to get his pictures shot! Seriously, bro!

Mark, Mark, Mark... You can't offer such a thing without me jumping on the opportunity. You pick the date and place, girlfriend. Preferably not a dirt lot behind a church, ahem. Oh, and maybe I'll bring that Canon EOS Rebel 35mm that I've never ever used. Just to see what I can make of it.

And was that a Princess Bride reference?

 

[kcowyo]

... was that a Princess Bride reference?

Does a one legged duck swim in a circle?

.

 

[DiploStrat]

Two Issues

There are two issues/questions here.

-- What is wrong with your pictures? If you haven't the eye and don't know how to use the camera, then Mark is absolutely right - it ain't the tool , it's the talent. (Or lack there of.)

-- To answer your specific question directly; the biggest difference between almost any P&S and any SLR is the size of the sensor and this, not the megapixel count, is what matters.

So, assuming that you have composed a prize winning shot, the image from a 6MP SLR will have better color, less noise, better resolution, etc., than the same image from a 10MP P&S because the sensor is larger.

As a fringe benefit, almost any DSLR focuses, meters, etc., much, much faster than any but the very best P&S.

That said, one of my favorite pictures, linked below, was taken with a tiny Sony T10.

Look closely and you will see image issues, and this is a link to a compressed JPEG, but the camera is rarely the limiting factor. After all, almost any camera you have is "better" than anything Ansel Adams had.

Best wishes for great pictures!

 

[ThomD]

Friends often ask me for camera advice and "What did you use to take that shot?" A lot of the time my answer is, "I'm not really sure which camera." I have a range of cameras from an SLR to a small pocketable camera. I always take the shot with which ever camera I have on me.

While it is true that a camera can be a limiting factor, that's only part of the story. A quick look at the specs for the S700 show that it has support for full manual controls. Learn what those controls are and how they work. That's a must to make good use of any tool that you have.

Quick advice:

Think about the lighting. Get closer. Get up. Get down. Think about the lighting. Play with depth of field. Think about the lighting. Play with shutter speed. Think about the lighting. Stop and look around. Pay attention to the edges of the frame. And remember, no light - no shot.

 

[nwoods]

Interesting thread, with great advice.

Merging the original question, with the advice given = Canon G10.
Great camera, with full manual controls, in a PNS format.

 

[phxtoad]

I'm a total novice at photography. I'm lucky enough to have a Canon Powershot point and shoot and a Canon Rebel DSLR.

With the DSLR I love the flexibility (being able to manipulate the focus, aperture, shutter, etc. and having additional lenses). I find that it's the way to go to MAKE some great photos. It involves more composition, knowledge and patience. I just wish I was more proficient at it.

The point and shoot is too handy not to have, though. Fits in a pocket so it's always with me, and allows me to TAKE some great photos. Note the distinction.

There's a place for both, I guess.

Todd

 

[JackW]

Since photography is one of my "serious" hobbies I'm probably the wrong one to ask - especially since I just added a full frame Canon EOS 1Ds MKII to my camera bag.

I've been using a Canon 20D and a Canon G5 P&S - the 20D can be had on the used market now for around $300-$400 (its the lenses that are gonna cost you the big bucks) and its newer siblings the 30D and 40D can be had for not too much more. All are great cameras that will give you years of use. Watch Craigslist for some real bargains. For entry level pro use the Canon 1D MkII can be found for $800-$1100 - it may be all the camera you ever need.

The Canon G series cameras are great for when you don't want to lug around a DSLR with all the glass or just need something a bit advanced over the normal point & shoot (although it does p&s very, very well). I love my little G5 and will probably eventually get a G10 to replace it.

Here's a good forum for Canon cameras:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

 

[Photog]

I know you were not asking for training; so forgive me for the length of this reply.

Lost Canadian (Trevor) posted a thread about what he had learned in photography. It is an excellent read. Maybe Bigreen505 (Bill Green) & TeriAnn will toss a comment in also. Here is my experience with these two types of cameras.

It is easier to learn the functions of a camera with an SLR, than with a P&S. Terri Ann might suggest that a field camera is even better; because it slows you down, and makes you take time to think. Once you understand how to create the images you want, and what your camera needs to do to create those images; then you can start forcing a P&S to get the job done.

People have said that a P&S is easier to carry, and you will have it with you more often. I believe this is true; so you should learn how to work its little legs off.

I can get my P&S Canon G9 to produce some very fine images; but it is much more tedious work than using my DSLR. This can be frustrating to a beginner, or someone new to digital photography.

An SLR that allows you to easily adjust aperture, shutter speed, focus, and show you the Depth of Field (DoF), will help you learn the technical parts of photography. These are not easy things to manupulate with a P&S, even if the P&S camera does have manual exposure and focus.

Then there is the art of photography. Lighting was mentioned earlier. Light is everything. No light, no picture; bad light, bad picture. Learn about lighting, back lighting, side lighting, contrast, color, etc.

In the studio, we control the light that is landing on our subjects. We are photographing the light that reflects off of the subject. We are not photographing the light directly (aiming the camera at the strobe). This is the same in the field. Don't shoot the sunset/sunrise - turn around, and shoot the subjects that are lit by that pretty light. Somestimes a sunset can be nice, if there is some other type of subject; so don't be hesitate to break the rules. Here are a couple shots pulled from another thread.

The sun has not risen yet, and the camera is facing sideways to the sunrise. Soft light, low contrast, plenty of color.

A subject within the color of a sunset. High contrast, bold color, minimal detail.

The digital sensor is covered with photosites. These pick up the light, for the processor to make an image from. The larger photosites produce a cleaner signal to the processor. Larger sensors have larger photosites. And, yes: a large 8Mp sensor (DSLR) will produce better images than a 12Mp small sensor (P&S).

As for recommendations: I would stay away from the Canon Rebel and the low end Nikon DSLRs, as their menus and functions are not as user friendly as the 20D, 30D, 40D, 5D, & 1D bodies. The Nikon D70, D80, D90, and D200 would be fine choices. There is no need to buy the latest thing on the market either. Spend the big money on good lenses, not the latest body. A used Pro lens is better than a new "kit" lens.

Get a DSLR and learn how to use it; but don't give up on your P&S. Have fun, and spend some time with Mark.

Well, I have blabbed on long enough.

Cheers

 

[Purple People Eater]

Thanks for the great advice, everyone. I'm still open to hear more...

Get a DSLR and learn how to use it; but don't give up on your P&S.
Cheers

That sounds good to me. I'm going to try to learn more about the functions on the ol' S700 in the next few months, and use what I've learned to ease into a DSLR. I think the sweat, tears, and frustration will be good for me. Also, if I were to buy a DSLR in the near future, it would be the wrong one due to ignorance. Let's see what I need... er, want to have first, then shop for features.

-Bobby