Goal Zero Vs. Dual Battery Vs. Solo Group 31

[markwin]

I am considering an auxiliary power system for my rig and wanted to solicit some advice.

Background/Application

I have a 2017 Tacoma and my style of camping/overlanding is to change sites pretty much every night. I plan to have a few multi-week trips coming up this summer. Here's my requirements:

* be able to charge devices while at camp
* be able to power auxillary lights, including a hard wired RTT light setup
* Not have to worry about compromising my ability to start the engine(can be mitigated with common sense and a jump pack?)
* In the future I'd probably add Winch+CB+Fridge
* Being able to run car electronics with the engine off(like radio etc.) is nice but not required
* Easy expansion to allow for solar
* Easily recharge battery from alternator when engine is running


Choices

Goal Zero

Pros
* Cheapest option
* Includes inverter, solar controller
* Portable
* Meet my current needs


Cons
* Not integrated with truck electrical system
* Unclear how to mount securely in the truck bed
* Fairly limited capacity


Group 31

Pros

* meets current needs
* higher capacity
* integrated with truck electrical
* simple installation

Cons

* battery is expensive
* requires somewhat expensive mounting bracket to accomodate larger size
* inverter, solar controller, etc would be extra
* risk of draining battery and being unable to start truck

Dual Battery

Pros
* potentially best capacity
* isolate starter and aux battery

Cons
* highest expense
* most complicated install more components to break


I think I mostly have ruled out dual battery, too complicated and expensive and I don't really see the benefits, at least not anything that can't be solved by a low-voltage disconnect and/or a starter jump pack. So it mostly comes down to the hardwired system vs the portable.

I am thinking I can go with the Goal Zero for now and simply look at adding a high capacity battery for the truck if and when I find the need. Thoughts of this approach? Am I missing any other considerations?

 

[Tbacus]

I have looked at this a number of times and I always come to the same conclusion. One high capacity battery is all you need. If you are worried about running you battery down, get a portable Lithium jump box like the Noco Genius.

 

[ajmaudio]

maybe I'm missing something but a group 31 battery doesnt even come close to the price of a goal zero unless your buying a very fancy battery. The small yeti doesnt have enough capacity to do anything that useful so I assume you meant one of the larger ones? Personally I would do the group 31 or a simple dual battery setup. By dual battery I mean a true deep cycle battery that is setup to charge from vehicle while running, not a dual starting battery setup. Starting batteries dont do well in the usage mode your describing. Adding a solar charge controller is easy and not really that expensive and you'll get a far better charger than what is in the Goal Zero unit. A decent 110 AH AGM battery is about 180bux, a charge controller 50-200 bux depending on capacity and features. Visit THIS thread for some very cost effective ways to tie your second battery into your vehicle charging system. IMO this is much better than a goal zero, yes you will need to get an inverter, but those are cheap. You'll get huge capacity, better solar options, better inverter options, and just plain get more for your money.

 

[john61ct]

Goal zero is super expensive, prohibitively for high AH/day use cases.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club.

There are a few G-31 AGMs that are designed for deep cycling, lots pricier than FLA, but way cheaper than GZ. Check out Odyssey & Lifeline, maybe Northstar.

Any good lead will be heavy per 10AH.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I run dual batteries wire in parallel that never disconnect and carry a jump box.

Pros
170AH of available power
Much easier on your batteries
No controls to fail
Set it and forget it
Lowest cost per working AH

Cons Non so far

I also have 100W of permanently mounted Solar that does very little with the current set up


I run a fridge, charge accessory, lighting, radio, and heat my RTT and in the morning wake to 12.2/3 volts

Figure out your power needs and keep it simple for long term reliability

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Change your main start battery to an oddysey extreme agm .

Not if you want a Grp 31. I have both Odyssey and Northstar Grp 31s in different trucks, and the Northstar is far less trouble to maintain. The Odyssey G31 is just a pain in the ass. The smaller Odysseys (like G34 ) are just fine.

 

[taco007]

I have a 4Runner and run a fridge with a single Northstar Grp 31 AGM battery. I also rarely stay put in one place. I spent 30 days driving to Alaska and back last summer and no problems at all. When not on long trips, I will put a NOCO 7200 charger on the battery every 2-3 weeks. I carry a jump pack, but have not needed it. I didn't need an expensive battery tray. Just buy longer bolts.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Pain? What do you mean... all I do is drive my vehicle.. or not... battery works fine.. I have them in several vehicles... I think they are pc1750... I don’t know what group battery that is....

A 1750 is not a Grp 31, I think it's a G65 (you could look it up). The Odyssey 2150 Extreme is their G31 with marine terminals, and it's extremely sensitive to charging profiles and maintenance routines. Requires an expensive high-amp conditioning charger and frequent conditioning cycles, even when driven occasional long distances. I have a 270-amp alternator in that truck. In my other truck, I dropped in a Northstar 31, and just ignored it. It's fine, no issues, no conditioning charger required yet, and it's been in for three years.

 

[john61ct]

Hogwash.

Odyssey has not spec'd any conditioning (equalizing) for their TPPL flat plate AGM batts for many years.

Northstar's tech and ease of care is virtually the same, their founder took it with him when he left their employ.

They are both very fine products, but if forced to choose any G-31 I'd take a PC-2150, unless I needed Firefly Oasis ability to handle PSOC abuse.

Which is definitely the case with you lot advocating alt-only charging.

Really? Much better off getting even a 50W panel to help with the 4+ hours per day "long tail" required to get to 100% Full even after a few hour's driving.

Will greatly extend the life of any lead batt.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Odyssey has not spec'd any conditioning (equalizing) for their TPPL flat plate AGM batts for many years.
Well, I'm on my third Odyssey G31 and have had extensive phone calls with Odyssey tech support and with their management. They have a specific list of chargers that are "approved" for their batteries, and they are on the second iteration of their own line of chargers. The charge profiles for Odyssey are not the same as those for Optimas (per actual actual live conversations with both Odyssey and Optima), but seem to be the same as for Northstar. The manufacturer of Optimate (not Optima) chargers in Canada told me about three years ago that their AGM smart chargers worked well with all AGMs except the Odyssey 31, because the Odyssey 31 needs higher charge voltage (above 14.7) than other AGM batteries. Odyssey tech support told me that the Odyssey 31 needs higher amperage than other AGMs, including other Odysseys. That is why they used to sell a 50-amp single bank charger specifically for their 2150. Currently their biggest charger is a 25-amp, and they tell me that it is not ideal for the 2150 but it will work. I have two of those chargers, plus one of their old 40-amp three bank units. I carry one plus a 50 foot extension cord in the cab most of the time, because I have to condition that battery so frequently. Higher amp is better and they are supposedly working on a high-amp charger just for that battery. One of the Odyssey senior execs (name buried in my files) told me that he puts his own 2150 on a full reconditioning cycle every eight weeks, because that's the only way to keep it from sulphating into oblivion.

Northstar's tech and ease of care is virtually the same, their founder took it with him when he left their employ.
My Northstar 31 has been completely invisible from a tech and maintenance standpoint. It just works. And the reserve capacity is slightly higher than the Odyssey's.

 

[john61ct]

Odyssey 31 needs higher charge voltage (above 14.7) than other AGM batteries. Odyssey tech support told me that the Odyssey 31 needs higher amperage than other AGMs, including other Odysseys.

All quality AGMs require high-amp charging for optimum longevity. Odyssey IMO is just being more up-front about it by publicly stating a .4C minimum.

Northstar and Lifeline are being more circumspect, "realistic for the market" at .2C, but all are much better off at .4C or even higher during the early stages.

Obviously many setups cannot achieve this ideal when out on the road, especially mostly-solar rigs. No harm done, just lose cycles off the back end, and not **nearly** as many as failing to get to 100% Full (5+ hours, as per endAmps) a few times per week.

But IMO for mains charging 60A should be the minimum purchased anyway for deep cycling usage.

And all my charge sources have fully user adjustable charge profiles not just canned dip switch choices.

Yes the future-proofed charger costs more than the banks, but the latter are consumables, while permanent infrastructure like chargers last many decades, certainly longer than most boats or vehicles.

But, none of this has to do with any charge profile differences between these top three marques.

My main point is, it's just not the case that Northstar is easier to care for or more robust than Odyssey.

 

[john61ct]

Forgot to mention, Lifeline is the only top AGM maker that still recommends equalizing / conditioning.

Many people judge that a big point in their favor.

But as with all makes that do, only do so manually and in accordance with their specific protocol.

Never leave a charger's automatic feature enabled, and if it can't be disabled, replace that charge source.

Many chargers are actually "too smart", marketing bells and whistles are fine if harmless but. . .

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Believe what you want, but my three Odyssey Grp 31s have been a major pain in the ass, and the Northstar Grp 31 has been perfect. Batteries are in different trucks, but both are parked more than they are driven. Odyssey requires constant maintenance charges, and the current one has been that way since new.

The NorthStar and the Odyssey have almost the same DNA

Sure, and my brother and I have almost the same DNA, but he is three inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I, on the other hand, am smarter and better looking. Same DNA does not mean same operating characteristics.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

All quality AGMs require high-amp charging for optimum longevity.

Optima does not agree with you. Their highest amp Optima-branded charger is about 12 amps, last time I checked. And their tech specs recommend max charge at 10 or so amps. So, I called them a couple years ago to inquire about using my 25-amp Odyssey charger on my pair of Optima marine house batteries. They told me that my 25-amp and 40-amp chargers would damage their batteries. So, Optima recommends 10 amps for their quality AGMS, and Odyssey recommends 50 amps for their quality Grp 31 AGM, but lower amps for their smaller, quality AGMs, like their Grp 34s. Who you gonna listen to? Who you gonna believe? Beats the hell out of me, so I'm going on a combination of tech specs, tech support calls, and my actual experience living with these batteries.

 

[john61ct]

Optima is irrelevant to deep cycle usage, since Enersys sold them off they're good dual-use Starter batts that's all.

It is just silly to talk about a charger branded by a batt vendor, just, why?

DC electricity is not rocket science, you just need the right voltage setpoints and sufficient amps.

Sterling and Promariner are the best for future-proof user adjustability on the profile.

Magnum, Victron, Mastervolt, even Samlex are great if you think you don't need that.

Anecdotal experience is all fine and good, but across thousands of users on land and at sea, Northstar certainly does not have a better rep than Odyssey.

All three vendors produce great batteries.