Grenadier Pricing Announced

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
That makes sense to me, @Grassland. Vehicles in general cost a lot more and folks have “expectations” of new cars more often it seems, so the longer term financing makes sense. That would change the math a bit on my analysis for sure. I should do the same math - with the same “variable costs” of insurance and gas - with a New Defender and a Jeep, just so we can all understand just how broke we all are :D

In relation to @Rruff’s point, I think even thou average incomes in US and Canada might be dollar for dollar similar - I understand that our various governments take a lot more from us than they do from you folks in the way of taxes. Gas is also generally way more expensive here — I pay about $6.60 CDN per gallon, for instance.

For me it’s about affordability more than price. How many Big Mac meals can I buy with an hour of work? How many Big Mac Meals will a Land Rover or Jeep cost me? How many Big Mac Meals will the Grenadier cost?

Not many Big Macs, a lot of Big Macs, and a lot more Big Macs is the answer to those questions in order!
 

SkiWill

Well-known member
@ChasingOurTrunks, sorry to hear about the house. I never like to hear about that kind of misfortunate to anyone, but you seem to be taking it as well as anyone. I'll cheers you a pint and try to follow your lead when faced with adversity. I also generally agree with your Defender and Jeep comparisons.

While the Grenadier certainly appears to me more stylistically, I know a Defender will easily, safely, and comfortably fit my 3 kids across the back seat. I know what I'm getting into, because I have an LR4, and I can go Defender 130 for similar US price point as the Grenadier which will be FAR MORE useful at a wide variety of tasks. It even has higher payload.

If I were truly going global, I'd just get a Jeep. Like you said, Dan Grec has proven the usefulness and success of those platforms. But I'm not doing that sort of thing for now. I have three kids and plenty of adventures to be had throughout Utah and western US/Canada where Land Rover service isn't a big issue.

At $81,500 US, my minimum Grenadier spec, I can get a very nice very well built used G class if I want a triple locked box on wheels, a Jeep and a minivan, or a Defender 110 in my spec with about $15,000 to spare. I love the concept of the Grenadier, but the pricing confirms that I will not be purchasing one. Not to say that it's not priced reasonably for what one gets, but for my hard earned money and specific needs, I have better options.
 

Jurfie

Adventurer
Woof. Played around on the configuration tool and spec'd out a $118k+ CAD build. I think these are going to be popular with the Gucci-eyeglass wearing crowd until the novelty wears off and they go back to their AMG G-Classes and Uruses.

I was really considering one of these, but not at that price.
 

rruff

Explorer
In relation to @Rruff’s point, I think even thou average incomes in US and Canada might be dollar for dollar similar - I understand that our various governments take a lot more from us than they do from you folks in the way of taxes.
It really depends on how efficiently that taxation is used, and where you are located on the cost vs benefit spectrum. I think I might prefer your higher taxes. ? I pay a big chunk... $12k/yr (after tax of course) for the shittiest cheapest health insurance I can get. If actually had to use it, I'd pay a lot more. Deductible is $2,800 I think, then they pay 80% until I'm out an extra $8.5k/yr.

Total taxation to GDP ratio is 32% in Canada vs 27% in the US.
 

Grassland

Well-known member
It really depends on how efficiently that taxation is used, and where you are located on the cost vs benefit spectrum. I think I might prefer your higher taxes. ? I pay a big chunk... $12k/yr (after tax of course) for the cheapest health insurance I can get. If actually had to use it, I'd pay a lot more. Deductible is $2,800 I think, then they pay 80% until I'm out an extra $8.5k/yr.

Total taxation to GDP ratio is 32% in Canada vs 27% in the US.
I wouldn't want to rely on our healthcare (except I do...) and would gladly pay for insurance to get timely and effective healthcare.
A friend moved to the USA from here and is slightly ahead financial even with the highest tier of health insurance available. Mind you he is in his early 40s and I'm sure that factors in.

Since neither country spends tax dollars effectively, the point is moot.

Back to the topic at hand, if you work for a living, the grenadier isn't for you.
 
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ABBB

Well-known member
@ChasingOurTrunks, sorry to hear about the house. I never like to hear about that kind of misfortunate to anyone, but you seem to be taking it as well as anyone. I'll cheers you a pint and try to follow your lead when faced with adversity. I also generally agree with your Defender and Jeep comparisons.

While the Grenadier certainly appears to me more stylistically, I know a Defender will easily, safely, and comfortably fit my 3 kids across the back seat. I know what I'm getting into, because I have an LR4, and I can go Defender 130 for similar US price point as the Grenadier which will be FAR MORE useful at a wide variety of tasks. It even has higher payload.

If I were truly going global, I'd just get a Jeep. Like you said, Dan Grec has proven the usefulness and success of those platforms. But I'm not doing that sort of thing for now. I have three kids and plenty of adventures to be had throughout Utah and western US/Canada where Land Rover service isn't a big issue.

At $81,500 US, my minimum Grenadier spec, I can get a very nice very well built used G class if I want a triple locked box on wheels, a Jeep and a minivan, or a Defender 110 in my spec with about $15,000 to spare. I love the concept of the Grenadier, but the pricing confirms that I will not be purchasing one. Not to say that it's not priced reasonably for what one gets, but for my hard earned money and specific needs, I have better options.

I don’t know what the percentage of forum members here that will actually use a 4x4 like this for only 4x4 reasons, but like @SkiWill said, for the money and my use case, I can get more utility from another vehicle. My 200 Series LC with an OME suspension upgrade gets me most places I want to go, is a Dad Van, can haul 7 people and ski gear inside, tows our little MOAB off grid trailer, and is comfortable for family road trips and grocery getting. I sure do like the idea of being the kind of gent that can afford a Grenadier and has the freedom of time and coin to put to real use a vehicle built for what the IG is built for, but I’m not that guy. If you’re that guy, or gal or they or whatever, all power to you, I really do hope this project is a success and you enjoy your incredible machine. But utility for me in a vehicle is in using it across my entire lifestyle spectrum. If more affordable, it would have fit the bill bc I don’t need much more to be happy than what they’ve built into the rig. But it sure is nice knowing my Toyota can get put back together again nearly any day of the week in any of the western US states we adventure in. It’s also nice going to sleep at night at home and out in the woods knowing the chances of something going wrong that isn’t my doing is supremely slim because of the proven engineering of Toyota and the LC in particular.

At the end of the day I don’t begrudge the pricing. I’d hoped I could get into one but I didn’t really expect it, especially as prices for everything have skyrocketed in the past two years. It reminds me about something my wife and I just noticed on our most recent camping trip. Each time we go out we by a case of fancy fizzy water and stock the cooler box in the LC for the long hours in the car. We unloaded the case and noticed the cooler box was less full than usual. A quick glance at the case revealed that our fancy fizzy water of choice is now being sold in 8 packs instead of 12 packs, and the packaging is deceptively similar. A quick glance at the receipt revealed that the price for 8 cans of fancy fizzy water is the same as what we used to pay for 12. 33% less product for the same price. Or a 33% price increase on our beverage of choice. The IG, in my mind, is priced similarly. It leaves me to wonder if they’d sincerely intended to make the vehicle more affordable, but global economics and market forces being what they are in today’s world, it just couldn’t pan out that way, or if the conceit all along was a niche vehicle for a very particular and affluent purchaser (or the guy willing to trade his left leg for a dreamy off roader).


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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
It really depends on how efficiently that taxation is used, and where you are located on the cost vs benefit spectrum. I think I might prefer your higher taxes. ? I pay a big chunk... $12k/yr (after tax of course) for the cheapest health insurance I can get. If actually had to use it, I'd pay a lot more. Deductible is $2,800 I think, then they pay 80% until I'm out an extra $8.5k/yr.

Total taxation to GDP ratio is 32% in Canada vs 27% in the US.

Oh I'm quite happy to pay the higher taxes for the most part -- like Grassland said, our healthcare does leave something to be desired in terms of service, but on the other hand I sleep well knowing that even my most vulnerable neighbours don't need to skip on seeing a doctor when they need to because of financial reasons. But, at the end of the day, the higher taxes do mean less loonies to spend on Grenadiers -- on balance, I think it's a worthy trade though!

@SkiWill - thanks for the kind words friend! Cheers back to you and while I hope you never do face this kind of adversity I know from our interactions you'll have no trouble keeping the chin up and the 'adventure attitude' intact as you've said! Also agreed with the rest of your post.

I actually just finished a fun little experiment for the Ineos Forum that I will cross-post here as I found it informative. New post coming as it's a bit longer.
 
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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Here's what I put up on the other forum; a best "dead reckoning" price comparison.

Here's the assumptions on my analysis:

1) I built the cars from regional websites by "pretending" I was a customer in the United States, Canada, the U.K., Australia, and South Africa. My build was based on the "tool to do a job" analogy, which means in every case I had to add a few things over the base, but my goal was to add the minimum options necessary to each vehicle in each market to get them suitable for a basic scenario/use case, or as close as I could get to it. I defined that use case as follows: I want an off road vehicle that allows me to tow, has front and rear lockers (or the equivalent in the case of the LR), and has the ability to pop off a part of the roof to stand and take pictures. My reason for having that last one in this comparison is that it is the default state for one of the comparators (Jeep), so I might as well try to get as close to apples to apples. I did not add any other options unless I had no choice. All vehicles are petrol with automatic transmissions - note that the jeep can be had for less with a manual, which is actually preferable for some, but again apples to apples. I should add though, that some vehicles come with a LOT more stuff in the "base" price -- the Land Rover interior has premium audio and finishes by default, for instance, whereas those are options on the other marques.

2) The analysis isn't perfect. Not all packages are the same around the world; for instance I was unable to get a price from the Australian website for a Defender, so I had to guesstimate how much the options I added (tow package and locker systems) would cost from third party data, so I'm probably a bit off there. Another example is that the Jeep in both Canada and the USA come with a soft top, so I added the hard top; this appears to be default in the UK and Australia. In Canada, you cannot just get the tow package, it comes with the high load aux switches, whereas in the USA you can do the tow package without the aux switches. So, it's not perfect because of these regional configurator differences, but it's not a terrible "dead reckoning".

3) Finally, the actual dollar price is pretty irrelevant; the vehicle is not priced based on exchange rates but instead on what the local market will bear. To that end, all of the numbers are expressed in the local currency. With that thought, we needed a benchmark, so I picked the Big Mac from McDonalds, also expressed in local currency. This can be thought of as your opportunity cost -- "How many Big Macs could I get if instead of buying (model) of vehicle, I went to McDonalds?".

I think that covers most of the context, here are the numbers:

Prices of Various Vehicles Expressed in Local Currency

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler$56,630$65,275£62,520$98,534R1,099,900
Gladiator$55,075$67,225£N/A$94,212R1,329,900
Defender$67,875$82,730£70,925$87,830R1,816,600
Grenadier$77,300$101,084£61,970$104,385R1,584,635
Big Mac$5.78$6.70£3.81$6.48R47.24



How Many Big Macs Can I Buy For The Price Of That Car?

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler9,797.69,742.516,409.515,205.923,283.2
Gladiator9,528.510,033.6N/A14,538.928,152.0
Defender11,743.112,347.818,615.513,554.038,454.7
Grenadier13,373.715,087.216,265.115,108.833,544.3

So what does the analysis above show? Well, the first blush is that my reaction to the Canadian pricing was not unfair -- the biggest affordability jump from the competition is in Canada. I could get 2,739.4 Big Macs for the money I would save buying the Defender instead of the Grenadier. For my American friends, you would be able to get only 1,630.6 Big Macs for the money you'd save buying the Defender instead of the Gren. In the UK, the Defender would actually mean you could get 2,350 Big Macs if you purchased the Gren instead of the Defender. Australians can get 1554.8 Big Macs if they "skimp" and buy the Defender instead of the Gren. South Africans -- apart from getting stupid good deals on Big Macs -- would be able to buy 4,910 Big Macs if they buy the Gren instead of the Defender.

So, it seems like in some places, the Gren is the value option. In other places, like the ones whose flag is adorned with a Maple Leaf, it's exorbitantly more expensive than the competition. It also shows that dollar for dollar, the Gren is priced similarly in the USA and Australia; less than 100 Big Macs isn't a lot on a purchase of this size. In Europe and South Africa, the Gren is a relative steal of a deal.

Personally, if I were in America, I'd still be in - the value is there. But in Canada, it is not. Each of these vehicles represents some sort of compromise on the Gren, but as I've said earlier in this thread, I can compromise on a lot for 2739 Big Macs. That's 3 years worth of dinners' difference between what a Canadian pays for the Gren as compared to what an American pays for the Gren, versus the other options.

This was a quick comparison, and I could easily have made mistakes on the numbers and I'm totally open to folks correcting any of the above based on their own analysis; good science needs repeatability so if others are willing to do a similar experiment and post the results, that would be awesome.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
I don’t know what the percentage of forum members here that will actually use a 4x4 like this for only 4x4 reasons, but like @SkiWill said, for the money and my use case, I can get more utility from another vehicle. My 200 Series LC with an OME suspension upgrade gets me most places I want to go, is a Dad Van, can haul 7 people and ski gear inside, tows our little MOAB off grid trailer, and is comfortable for family road trips and grocery getting. I sure do like the idea of being the kind of gent that can afford a Grenadier and has the freedom of time and coin to put to real use a vehicle built for what the IG is built for, but I’m not that guy. If you’re that guy, or gal or they or whatever, all power to you, I really do hope this project is a success and you enjoy your incredible machine. But utility for me in a vehicle is in using it across my entire lifestyle spectrum. If more affordable, it would have fit the bill bc I don’t need much more to be happy than what they’ve built into the rig. But it sure is nice knowing my Toyota can get put back together again nearly any day of the week in any of the western US states we adventure in. It’s also nice going to sleep at night at home and out in the woods knowing the chances of something going wrong that isn’t my doing is supremely slim because of the proven engineering of Toyota and the LC in particular.

At the end of the day I don’t begrudge the pricing. I’d hoped I could get into one but I didn’t really expect it, especially as prices for everything have skyrocketed in the past two years. It reminds me about something my wife and I just noticed on our most recent camping trip. Each time we go out we by a case of fancy fizzy water and stock the cooler box in the LC for the long hours in the car. We unloaded the case and noticed the cooler box was less full than usual. A quick glance at the case revealed that our fancy fizzy water of choice is now being sold in 8 packs instead of 12 packs, and the packaging is deceptively similar. A quick glance at the receipt revealed that the price for 8 cans of fancy fizzy water is the same as what we used to pay for 12. 33% less product for the same price. Or a 33% price increase on our beverage of choice. The IG, in my mind, is priced similarly. It leaves me to wonder if they’d sincerely intended to make the vehicle more affordable, but global economics and market forces being what they are in today’s world, it just couldn’t pan out that way, or if the conceit all along was a niche vehicle for a very particular and affluent purchaser (or the guy willing to trade his left leg for a dreamy off roader).


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I hear you -- for my goals, the Grenadier is the perfect tool for the job. But, I am OK using imperfect tools if the value isn't there; everything is a compromise and I'm willing to settle for a 'lesser' but adequate tool to save the kind of money we're talking about here. And I know I could run this to it's logical conclusion and go for cheaper and cheaper models, but "value" is based on a lot of factors and tends to be a personal perception as opposed to an objective fact; the Gren is great value in some parts of the world, but for me, Canada isn't one of those parts!

You are totally right about the Shrinkflation too. If you want to have some real fun with your blood pressure, bust out the kitchen scale and start measuring how many grams are actually in your various 250g, 500g, etc. packets of food -- in many cases, they are not even being clever with updated packaging -- they're straight up lying to you about how many grams you get in the package!
 

ABBB

Well-known member
Here's what I put up on the other forum; a best "dead reckoning" price comparison.

Here's the assumptions on my analysis:

1) I built the cars from regional websites by "pretending" I was a customer in the United States, Canada, the U.K., Australia, and South Africa. My build was based on the "tool to do a job" analogy, which means in every case I had to add a few things over the base, but my goal was to add the minimum options necessary to each vehicle in each market to get them suitable for a basic scenario/use case, or as close as I could get to it. I defined that use case as follows: I want an off road vehicle that allows me to tow, has front and rear lockers (or the equivalent in the case of the LR), and has the ability to pop off a part of the roof to stand and take pictures. My reason for having that last one in this comparison is that it is the default state for one of the comparators (Jeep), so I might as well try to get as close to apples to apples. I did not add any other options unless I had no choice. All vehicles are petrol with automatic transmissions - note that the jeep can be had for less with a manual, which is actually preferable for some, but again apples to apples. I should add though, that some vehicles come with a LOT more stuff in the "base" price -- the Land Rover interior has premium audio and finishes by default, for instance, whereas those are options on the other marques.

2) The analysis isn't perfect. Not all packages are the same around the world; for instance I was unable to get a price from the Australian website for a Defender, so I had to guesstimate how much the options I added (tow package and locker systems) would cost from third party data, so I'm probably a bit off there. Another example is that the Jeep in both Canada and the USA come with a soft top, so I added the hard top; this appears to be default in the UK and Australia. In Canada, you cannot just get the tow package, it comes with the high load aux switches, whereas in the USA you can do the tow package without the aux switches. So, it's not perfect because of these regional configurator differences, but it's not a terrible "dead reckoning".

3) Finally, the actual dollar price is pretty irrelevant; the vehicle is not priced based on exchange rates but instead on what the local market will bear. To that end, all of the numbers are expressed in the local currency. With that thought, we needed a benchmark, so I picked the Big Mac from McDonalds, also expressed in local currency. This can be thought of as your opportunity cost -- "How many Big Macs could I get if instead of buying (model) of vehicle, I went to McDonalds?".

I think that covers most of the context, here are the numbers:

Prices of Various Vehicles Expressed in Local Currency

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler$56,630$65,275£62,520$98,534R1,099,900
Gladiator$55,075$67,225£N/A$94,212R1,329,900
Defender$67,875$82,730£70,925$87,830R1,816,600
Grenadier$77,300$101,084£61,970$104,385R1,584,635
Big Mac$5.78$6.70£3.81$6.48R47.24



How Many Big Macs Can I Buy For The Price Of That Car?

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler9,797.69,742.516,409.515,205.923,283.2
Gladiator9,528.510,033.6N/A14,538.928,152.0
Defender11,743.112,347.818,615.513,554.038,454.7
Grenadier13,373.715,087.216,265.115,108.833,544.3

So what does the analysis above show? Well, the first blush is that my reaction to the Canadian pricing was not unfair -- the biggest affordability jump from the competition is in Canada. I could get 2,739.4 Big Macs for the money I would save buying the Defender instead of the Grenadier. For my American friends, you would be able to get only 1,630.6 Big Macs for the money you'd save buying the Defender instead of the Gren. In the UK, the Defender would actually mean you could get 2,350 Big Macs if you purchased the Gren instead of the Defender. Australians can get 1554.8 Big Macs if they "skimp" and buy the Defender instead of the Gren. South Africans -- apart from getting stupid good deals on Big Macs -- would be able to buy 4,910 Big Macs if they buy the Gren instead of the Defender.

So, it seems like in some places, the Gren is the value option. In other places, like the ones whose flag is adorned with a Maple Leaf, it's exorbitantly more expensive than the competition. It also shows that dollar for dollar, the Gren is priced similarly in the USA and Australia; less than 100 Big Macs isn't a lot on a purchase of this size. In Europe and South Africa, the Gren is a relative steal of a deal.

Personally, if I were in America, I'd still be in - the value is there. But in Canada, it is not. Each of these vehicles represents some sort of compromise on the Gren, but as I've said earlier in this thread, I can compromise on a lot for 2739 Big Macs. That's 3 years worth of dinners' difference between what a Canadian pays for the Gren as compared to what an American pays for the Gren, versus the other options.

This was a quick comparison, and I could easily have made mistakes on the numbers and I'm totally open to folks correcting any of the above based on their own analysis; good science needs repeatability so if others are willing to do a similar experiment and post the results, that would be awesome.

Love it! Great experiment and solid data point, @ChasingOurTrunks!

My understanding of the automotive business is that pricing is ALWAYS based on what is expected the market will bear. And this is one well-hyped machine. Hopefully their engineers and service network are as robust as their marketing team.


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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
It does feel like they didn't do a very good job managing expectations on price, @klahanie. Not just on the "hard pressed" comment, but going back to the beginning of it and claiming they were aiming for a rig in between the Toyota offerings and the Land Rover offerings -- to be so much more expensive than the "luxury" offerings from the likes of JLR is a surprise.

It is still a great rig. At the end of the day Ineos feels they will sell them at these prices, and I think they will sell every single one they make. But for a lot of folks, it's not going to be an easy or obvious decision. I still think that it's better for my needs than the new Defender for sure -- I do not like the design philosophy of the New Defender, it's complexity, and it's reliance on whizz-bang technology. And with a New Defender, I know I have a greater chance of having the damn thing sit down on my in the middle of nowhere. But for most other things -- its ability to shuttle me around off road -- the New Defender and the Grenadier are pretty comparable in terms of how they'd be used in the real world and how they'd perform; they'll both get me up the mountain. And while that complexity of the ND increases the risk of me getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, I can pay for a lot of remote recoveries for the price difference; if that price was closer this wouldn't be a factor and the Gren would be the clearly better choice. But now, it's almost an easy choice in the other direction for the Canadian pricing.
 

ABBB

Well-known member
@ChasingOurTrunks , so much for IAs Mr Clarke's adamant assertion 11 months ago that we'd be hard pressed to option up a Gren to 100k CAD !

More like, hard pressed to stay under 100k !

But that's what one can do if build from base, add one major option and two or three minor ones. Add 2k (all CAD pricing) and you're at the luxury tax threshold (20% surtax). I have a hard time going over that.

For me this was always a, "money to burn" proposition. Never a value one.

Interesting to read the comparables (had no idea new Defenders can be cheaper) but we're not cross shopping.

Truth, a Forester will meet our needs. So we're looking at a 55k premium for "wants". Haven't come to a firm, no, yet so still a possibility for us.

On your earlier affordability worksheet... this was never meant to be a "people's car". I mean look at the genesis. Sir Jim and Associates are a looong way from the likes of you or me.

Financing this car would be nuts unless rich or through/as a business.

Anyway, if we were to proceed two things that would concern me...

First if we resell would ordering the base model be a mistake - would a higher trim be a better bet. Not sure I'd want to take on that extra cost/risk.

Second, 16L/100 is crummy. Yesterday's milage. Nothing for the future there and makes DDing unlikely except for those with the $$s

So, yeah still thinking on it.

Add the expense of 92 octane gasoline being the OE recommendation. I like how you frame it as a money to burn, not a value proposition. I think that captures it well. I just hope it lives up to the hype over time. The average consumer vehicle is built to last 10, maybe 15 years (that’s debatable…). Toyota aims for 25 with the Land Cruiser. More thorough, unbiased inspection, hard repetitive usage, and good old passage of time will be what really tells us if the IG is built to last 20 years and withstand hard use.

As a side note, I wonder if IG will enter itself in Dakar. Toyota has won a bunch since their first entry in 1995 in whatever they call the close-to-stock vehicles category. Would be a real test and speak volumes if Ineos entered this category and was able to compete.


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ABBB

Well-known member
It does feel like they didn't do a very good job managing expectations on price, @klahanie. Not just on the "hard pressed" comment, but going back to the beginning of it and claiming they were aiming for a rig in between the Toyota offerings and the Land Rover offerings -- to be so much more expensive than the "luxury" offerings from the likes of JLR is a surprise.

It is still a great rig. At the end of the day Ineos feels they will sell them at these prices, and I think they will sell every single one they make. But for a lot of folks, it's not going to be an easy or obvious decision. I still think that it's better for my needs than the new Defender for sure -- I do not like the design philosophy of the New Defender, it's complexity, and it's reliance on whizz-bang technology. And with a New Defender, I know I have a greater chance of having the damn thing sit down on my in the middle of nowhere. But for most other things -- its ability to shuttle me around off road -- the New Defender and the Grenadier are pretty comparable in terms of how they'd be used in the real world and how they'd perform; they'll both get me up the mountain. And while that complexity of the ND increases the risk of me getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, I can pay for a lot of remote recoveries for the price difference; if that price was closer this wouldn't be a factor and the Gren would be the clearly better choice. But now, it's almost an easy choice in the other direction for the Canadian pricing.

You can get the ND with coils from the factory and never have to worry about it dropping on you in the middle of nowhere. I believe it shaved a couple thousand off the price as well. Win win.


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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
You can get the ND with coils from the factory and never have to worry about it dropping on you in the middle of nowhere. I believe it shaved a couple thousand off the price as well. Win win.


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Yes, that is a much cheaper option by a few grand. In my experiment, I did have air suspension spec'd because its' part of the advanced off road pack. If I were personally buying one, I'd have to have a long think about whether I wanted that or not. But, the air suspension is actually pretty well sorted at this stage as they've been using it for so long as a brand, and so I'm less worried about that. The other stuff that worries me are things like Over the Air Updates failing and causing the vehicle to not start, or having any number of other sensors malfunction and trigger a limp home mode.

Thankfully by the time I am buying, the ND will be even more well sorted and most of the known issues will have community support/solutions, which helps mitigate the risk. There will likely be used Grens around too by then. No shortage of options though, and that can even further change the value proposition in a couple of years time.
 

GetOutThere

Adventurer
Yes I noticed this earlier... but saying that this is competitively priced in the US but not Canada... when we actually pay more, is just... funny. If Canada was a poor country that might make some sense, but median incomes in US$ are almost identical. Canadians get a deal on all these vehicles, but maybe not as good a deal on the Grenadier.

I wonder about the rhyme or reason of the difference in prices in different countries. Electronics are expensive in Europe for instance, but bicycle parts are cheap. Both come from China and Taiwan originally. Is the difference in import taxes, restrictions, or what? Bike parts interest me because I worked in that business. I don't think the US restricts or taxes Taiwanese imports, and they didn't with China either at the time, so that couldn't be it. I could buy most items retail from the UK or Germany shops and pay for shipping half way around the world, for less money than US wholesale! Same exact item.

There is an Expo article about Starlink that mentions the cost is ~50% in Mexico vs what it is in the US, and that you can set it up while you are in Mexico and save a lot of money! That makes some sense because Mexico is poor. It still seems a little odd, because it means US residents are subsidizing it so it can be sold for less profit or a loss in other countries.

Busting in a bit late on this one, but median income in the USA and Canada are not almost identical. The median income in the USA is significantly higher than in Canada.

The most recent numbers I can find are USA median income $93,547 CAD, and Canada median income $67,521 CAD.

 

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