H1 hummer 16.5 Double Beadlock wheels and Balancing Questions

[PMA4x4]

Ok, I know there have been some threads and articles on recentering a used H1 wheel and then using it on the street. Some have claimed no problem, most noticed a balance issue The thing is every thread and article I found on them whether at Expo Portal or CK5 or else where the users had military take offs.

I am looking for input from people that have the recentered H1 wheels and have gone with a different tires like a BFG AT in 35x12.50x16.5” Or just anything else then the surplus tires and actually have driven this on the road extensively.

What have you done about balancing? I was looking at the Centramatics (http://centramatic.com/Home.aspx)

My plan was to get the 12 bolt H1s. Build a runout jig for the wheel, use the pressed recenter with the fixed backsapce of 3.5” get the TWB PVC beadlock pieces and call it a day.

 

[bfdiesel]

BB's are cheap balancing material available at most department stores. Also balance sand from industrial tire shops.

 

[PMA4x4]

Those were my original ideas as far as balancing in general goes but then I would have to carry extra of this material is I was to change a tire in the field.

The info I am looking for is if people have ran these wheels with anything other than the surplus military tires and what balancing issues (if any) did they have.

 

[Rykstone]

Lets get one thing straight. Most people who are involved with rims know that 99% of all rims are not actually true and are almost always out of balance. The only rims that are true are ones that are made for Race cars, Dragsters, etc. Built for high speed. When recentering wheels, everything needs to be turned on a lathe first and then the mill. Then back to the lathe after the weld is in place. You will always have a variance in your outer wheel even though you machined and welded you recentered piece in. This is where the tire comes into play by balancing the unit out as a whole. Then of course either weights, sand, bb's, or nothing is placed on to your own accord. If you are thinking about changing tires out "in the field," and you are not looking to carry, sand, or bb's, then the obvious solution is to use stick on weights. Just my .02.

 

[86tuning]

If you have to change a tire in the field IMO don't worry about balancing unless you're doing extended high speed driving.

The rim recentering shop can weld balance weights to the rim itself before the tires are mounted. Then you only have to really account for the tire itself and the beadlocking sleeve.

 

[PMA4x4]

Lets get one thing straight. Most people who are involved with rims know that 99% of all rims are not actually true and are almost always out of balance. The only rims that are true are ones that are made for Race cars, Dragsters, etc. Built for high speed. When recentering wheels, everything needs to be turned on a lathe first and then the mill. Then back to the lathe after the weld is in place. You will always have a variance in your outer wheel even though you machined and welded you recentered piece in. This is where the tire comes into play by balancing the unit out as a whole. Then of course either weights, sand, bb's, or nothing is placed on to your own accord. If you are thinking about changing tires out "in the field," and you are not looking to carry, sand, or bb's, then the obvious solution is to use stick on weights. Just my .02.

I understand "run of the mill" wheels are not perfect. As for the balancing media that is why I was looking at the Centramatics.

 

[PMA4x4]

If you have to change a tire in the field IMO don't worry about balancing unless you're doing extended high speed driving.

The rim recentering shop can weld balance weights to the rim itself before the tires are mounted. Then you only have to really account for the tire itself and the beadlocking sleeve.

Highway driving for long periods is the exact reason I am looking for balancing.

Thats actually not a bad idea on having the wheel check for balance by itself first. But even with assembling the wheel back together in the same way it could still come out of balance.

 

[swirvin21]

I have built, run and sold a ton of the H1 16.5" military 2 piece wheels without issue, but I don't recenter them. In all honesty, it's easier, cheaper and safer to run a quality spacer than to recenter them. I run a 2" spacer on the front right now, but will be running DRW width soon and remove the spacers.

Now the biggest difference on having the wheel balance is which tire you run. The older Goodyear MT will never run balanced no matter what you throw in or at it. It's just not designed for road travel and was a minor upgrade from the original bias ply 36" tires the military first ran on the 8 bolt H1 wheels. The newest BFG Baja and Goodyear MT/R are AWESOME on the road! I have had sets come from the military already balanced and run pretty true aside from around 50mph for me. Now, keep in mind that I still have the 30lb chunk of rubber they use for a runflat/insert to make it a true double beadlock, so I'm sure that is the only issue. I have run these tires on aluminum wheels and averaged maybe 2-3oz per tire/wheel to get them balanced, which is pretty good.

Wanted to also let you know that there is a safety issue with running ANY 8 bolt H1 wheels. 8 bolts, being the number of bolts holding the 2 halves of the wheel together. There are not enough bolts present to handle the stress of an on-the-road radial tire and if just 1 bolt breaks, the rest will go and it's not pretty. This has happened multiple times. If you're going to run ANY H1 wheel on the road, make sure they are 12 or 24 bolt wheels just to be safe.

If you absolutely have to recenter them, please do as stated above and have them checked for true prior to final welding and then have them welded in 2" sections on opposite sides until complete. Then have the wheel checked for balance and possibly weld on a few small washers to true it prior to adding a tire.

Here's my truck with 24 bolts and BFG Bajas for reference!

Feel free to ask any questions. I actually have a set or 2 of the wheels left and have been contemplating selling the ones above....have some 20" Stazworks w/ Goodyear MVTs

 

[PMA4x4]

I didn't mention 8 bolt H1 wheels at all I know a lot of people use those because they are the cheapest but Yeah, for my application I need at least the 12 bolt wheels. 12 bolts allow 60PSI max and are also rated at 3,850lbs each(IIRC). I plan tot run regular BFG All Terrains. Nothing from or even in the same category as the military tires.

In my plans of doing recenters the welding you mentioned is pretty much what I had planned to do. Also rechecking runout on the longside and watching it change as the weld cools off. So you can actually use the weld to help center as well. The problem with the spacers is I am wanting a 3.5" backspacing. that would require a 4" spacer. Not the brightest idea.

I was actually thinking of having the wheels checked before anything is done at all in a stock setup. Also the local tire shop I deal with can balance lug centric so that will be a big help too.

Swirvin21, I see you have the 2x2 style 24 bolt. What do you use for the double beadlock piece?

 

[swirvin21]

These came stock from a military surplus auction as you see them. The newest military H1 tires and wheels will have either the 2x2 style (paired) 24 bolt wheels or an evenly spaced version, the evenly spaced version is typically a D Load range tire and the paired is E Load. These are E load BFG Baja and have a stock 1 piece rubber runflat inside. They are not full size old school rubber runflats, but the low-profile version here:

I like the rubber ones as they don't crack, but are hard to get in new tires!!! You can take them to an oilfield shop and have them turn the mohawk down and into move or an insert instead. I like full size as it gives a little more weight on the unsprung side for crawling. I will admit though that I have a vibration at around 50mph, goes away at around 60.

Trail Worthy Fab does do a balance with the wheels prior to powdercoating or shipping and can do your wheels if you want it done. 99% of the fab shops I talk to won't do the work if you say it will see highway speeds...to much of a liability. Even trail worthy says "Offroad Only", need to be conscious of that if you have any insurance concerns. Know a guy in OKC that sells wheels & tires, I have an extra 5 in my garage, but shipping is the killer. I usually try to find a rider from Pirate in the hauling section or on uship or something.

Plan is to upgrade to these sometime this year after I do an axle swap for an F450 front D60 and rear D80. They are Goodyear MVT 395/85R20 on Stazworks 20x14" double beadlocks, about a 46x16" tire roughly. Have the stazworks inserts. Might....might, not sure yet, be getting a set of Hutchinson 8 lug 20x12 double beadlocks from a friend that have a BS like the H1 16.5s, but deeper. The Stazworks stick out further, so not sure which one will work with the axle yet. I also have dually hubs in case I need them.

 

[swirvin21]

Here's a shot with no spacer to show you the difference. Cleared, but the hub stuck out too much and hit the control arms at full turn...so grabbed some used spacers for $100. These were my old 12 bolts with crappy Goodyear MTs for reference. The Bajas and MT/R are easily 10x better...

 

[PMA4x4]

Well After some horse trading I am ending up with 2 pallets worth of paired 24 bolts and a M116 trailer today. I still dont kn ow if I will use the H1 wheels as I have been thinking of the tall n skinny route.

any idea where I can find new O-rings fo rthe 24 bolts? a couple I saw are missing them. and are the valve stems the same if they are 8, 12 or 24 bolts?

 

[Outback]

Trailworthy should have the correct size O ring for you. They will need to know which wheels you have. By the way. I love my Baja MTs!

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Some good info here. I was thinking of trying some Mil. spec., 12 bolt take-offs on my '01 Dodge 2500. I see the Military's back spacing is 7" for the 8 on 6.5 bolt pattern. The Dodge back spacing is 6.5". Will the Mil's clear the brakes and steering? Are these hub centric or stud centric? currently we are planning a four month trip in the TC, mostly on road and I didn's want to wear out my current off-road tires on pavement, if i could find a 9" wide wheel with or without beadlocks and some wide-ish tires (read super singles). I read that the Goodyears are actually 34" tall.

Here are the 33x15.50 super singles on 12" wide aluminum wheels, 3750 load rating that work like Redneck Duallies or a duplex:

regards, as always, jefe3

 

[PMA4x4]

I found out what the main O-rings are so I am ordering a batch of them from a another source. TWF wants $5.00 per O-ring. this maybe just a one time deal on selling these wheels but I intend to not pay retail for the replacement parts.