Hallmark Truck Camper Company files for bankruptcy

[JaSAn]

IMO a big advantages of FWC/ATC is that their frame and exterior is bombproof and they offer a shell model.
I have a 46 y.o (1977) Grandby with original canvas that is still weather tight. I have seen other 70s - early 80s FWCampers for sale for under $2K. Rip out the interior and do your own.

 

[mk216v]

IMO a big advantages of FWC/ATC is that their frame and exterior is bombproof and they offer a shell model.
I have a 46 y.o (1977) Grandby with original canvas that is still weather tight. I have seen other 70s - early 80s FWCampers for sale for under $2K. Rip out the interior and do your own.

If you're looking for a surplus of thermal transfer and condensation, certainly.
Huge changes in the truck camper game in the last 5yrs or so, especially with full composite campers, of which Shells are now available.
All in all, FWC is very antiquated at this point. YMMV.


Anyone know how bankruptcy like this works?; same question regarding Earthroamer's bankruptcy. Do the taxpayers in Colorado foot the burden, and the company "starts fresh" without being held responsible for any repayment to those owed? Or does the "new" company have to repay some of that burden over time? Because if Earthroamer got away scott-free, yet they're now selling luxury RV's for $700k, that's pretty poor.

PS--Hallmark, if you haven't seen this thread, have a look; https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/hallmark-let-me-down.233264/

 

[tacollie]

I'm not an expert and don't know the exact details but this is my understanding this far. Hallmark filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy which allows them to continue to do business and restructure their debts as long as it is in the best interest of their creditors. In other words it gives them more time to pay their debts.

Earthroamer filied chapter 7 which requires selling assets to pay off creditors. This requires them to cease business. ER had to start over to some degree.

What is more interesting is Outfitter filled chapter 11 in 2009 and came out of it in tact. Their filling read very similar to Hallmark's. That is a good sign for those who have deposits on Hallmark campers. It's also a little curious given the 2 companies have family ties. Either way hopefully things work out for Hallmark's employees, creditors, and customers.

I don't think FWC will have any issues. I am curious what will happen to the wedge camper industry. It seems like everytime I get in Instagram there is a new wedge camper company popping up.

 

[JaSAn]

If you're looking for a surplus of thermal transfer and condensation, certainly.
. . . composite campers, of which Shells are now available.
All in all, FWC is very antiquated at this point . . .

Thermal transfer and condensation has never been a problem down to about 20ºF. Can't compare for temps lower as I have never camped in a composite camper. But condensation is manageable in a FWC.

New or slightly used composite campers are way out of my price range and I don't know what condition they will be in when they get there. I don't worry about desert pinstriping or someone thinking my rig is worth stealing.

I'm 'very antiquated at this point', built in 1949 (all original parts). I would guess there are a lot of us here for whom a tent is no longer an enjoyable option and can't (or won't) spend $100K+ for truck and camper.

 

[mk216v]

Thermal transfer and condensation has never been a problem down to about 20ºF. Can't compare for temps lower as I have never camped in a composite camper. But condensation is manageable in a FWC.

I suppose "manageable" carries a different meaning for everyone. @RAM5500 CAMPERTHING

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I suppose "manageable" carries a different meaning for everyone. @RAM5500 CAMPERTHING

I've beat my hatred of FWC to death on here. No need to rile up the fanboys anymore, its a lost cause...

The real winner will be whoever comes up with a gizmo to turn all the FWC condensation into drinking water. You could travel unsupported for eternity

 

[Sparse Gray Hackle]

I've beat my hatred of FWC to death on here. No need to rile up the fanboys anymore, its a lost cause...

The real winner will be whoever comes up with a gizmo to turn all the FWC condensation into drinking water. You could travel unsupported for eternity

No worries! There are many of us who have been bitten by that bunch and will never forget… and never do business with them again.

 

[tacollie]

We only have 4 nights in the OEV but so far it seems on par with our FWC as far as condensation. The plumbing, electrical, general build quality, and cold weather comfort are superior but it better be for the extra money. FWC meets a price point for a lot of people. OEV and Hallmark are the next step followed by Supertramp if you really want to spend some money.

 

[mk216v]

We only have 4 nights in the OEV but so far it seems on par with our FWC as far as condensation. The plumbing, electrical, general build quality, and cold weather comfort are superior but it better be for the extra money. FWC meets a price point for a lot of people. OEV and Hallmark are the next step followed by Supertramp if you really want to spend some money.

Getting off topic, but which OEV model?
How can an OEV have FWC-like condensation when the FWC is an aluminum stick structure with fiberglass skin = LOTS of thermal bridging, yet OEV is composite honeycomb/foam with only exterior aluminum corner extrusions = no thermal bridging??

 

[Bergger]

Getting off topic, but which OEV model?
How can an OEV have FWC-like condensation when the FWC is an aluminum stick structure with fiberglass skin = LOTS of thermal bridging, yet OEV is composite honeycomb/foam with only exterior aluminum corner extrusions = no thermal bridging??

I was wondering about that as well.

 

[tacollie]

Getting off topic, but which OEV model?
How can an OEV have FWC-like condensation when the FWC is an aluminum stick structure with fiberglass skin = LOTS of thermal bridging, yet OEV is composite honeycomb/foam with only exterior aluminum corner extrusions = no thermal bridging??

2022 Camp-x. Maybe it's a pop up thing. We never had significant condensation in the FWC even in sub zero weather. It would get a thin layer of frost at night on the roof. The worst was a rainy week in Arkansas because it was so humid. Part of it may be that we never ran the furnace while we slept even in sub zero temperatures.

We had a night around 20* last weekend and we were surprised how moist it was in the Camp-x. Specifically the aluminum to open/close it, 2 windows that we didn't have the shades down. and a little under the mattress that probably dripped down from the aluminum lever. I thought I had turned the furnace off but I had turned it down to 41* so it did run until I turned it off around 2am. Maybe that was the culprit.

Sort of in topic. We briefly considered ordering a Miner in December. Price, wait time, and aesthetics made it a brief consideration. I wonder if they were able to negotiate with CFM as part of the bankruptcy negotiations to continue to have them as a vendor.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

2022 Camp-x. Maybe it's a pop up thing. We never had significant condensation in the FWC even in sub zero weather. It would get a thin layer of frost at night on the roof. The worst was a rainy week in Arkansas because it was so humid. Part of it may be that we never ran the furnace while we slept even in sub zero temperatures.

We had a night around 20* last weekend and we were surprised how moist it was in the Camp-x. Specifically the aluminum to open/close it, 2 windows that we didn't have the shades down. and a little under the mattress that probably dripped down from the aluminum lever. I thought I had turned the furnace off but I had turned it down to 41* so it did run until I turned it off around 2am. Maybe that was the culprit.

In my limited testing experience, propane heat is wet whereas diesel heat is dry.

Youll never hear anyone with a diesel heater complaining about condensation issues, versus with propane

 

[Sparse Gray Hackle]

In my limited testing experience, propane heat is wet whereas diesel heat is dry.

Youll never hear anyone with a diesel heater complaining about condensation issues, versus with propane

IMO, as long as the furnace exhaust is ducted out side, neither propane nor diesel should contribute to condensation. I suspect the reason you don’t hear complaints about diesel is there are very few (if any) diesel catalytic heaters, as opposed to heaters like the Wave series propane catalytic heaters that are often used in campers because of no electrical current draw.

I used a Wallas diesel stove/heater that was ducted outside. It was nice, temperamental, expensive to buy and repair, but for heat, no better than a propane furnace.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

IMO, as long as the furnace exhaust is ducted out side, neither propane nor diesel should contribute to condensation. I suspect the reason you don’t hear complaints about diesel is there are very few (if any) diesel catalytic heaters, as opposed to heaters like the Wave series propane catalytic heaters that are often used in campers because of no electrical current draw.

I used a Wallas diesel stove/heater that was ducted outside. It was nice, temperamental, expensive to buy and repair, but for heat, no better than a propane furnace.

I will strongly disagree with this.

Even simply googling "Propane vs Diesel Camper Heaters" will show multiple articles listing pros and cons and almost all of them mention propane giving off humidity and condensation

My propane dometic furnace in my FWC, when it was in the mood to work, would literally have condensation right on its outlet into the camper and if run long enough would drip on the floor

 

[Sparse Gray Hackle]

I’ll have to check that out, it’s not been my experience.

…editing… what I found is what I’ve experienced. Regardless, both are good when installed and used properly. Ventilation with either heat source is the key.

“RV propane furnaces do not add moisture to the interior of an RV. “At the root level, a forced air furnace draws in fresh air from outside the vehicle, mixes it with propane and burns it in a sealed combustion chamber.” Per the late Gary Bunzer, the RV Doctor.”

Do Vented RV Furnace Heaters Add Moisture To The Air?
Vented RV furnaces do not add moisture to the air due to the separation of the heat exchanger and the burning chambers inside the furnace. The combustion of fuel does generate water which is released into the air.