HAM radio info
- Thread starter WildBill
- Start date
xtatik
Explorer
I got a kick out of this advice.
My advice would be the opposite. If I wanted advice about radio, I'd go to the guys that really know radio (yep, the old fart Elmers)......If I wanted advice about wheeling, I'd go to the guys that know wheeling.:coffeedrink:
I disagree , Asking a HF guy that works out of a nice ac room vs a guy that uses ham on the trail is like asking a basketball player about were to get a good foot ball helmet .
xtatik
Explorer
Well, I disagree with you in turn, and I'll tell you that your analogy is lame. In most cases, those "HF guys" are radio guys...plain and simple and what they do know is RF. Chances are they know more than the average offroading ham who has simply added the basic license and radio to his "kit" in order to make his outdoor experience more comfortable. This easily comprises the bulk of offroading hams whose experience has been limited to only FM. As a radio guy (er, HF guy) that also spends a great deal of time outdoors, I think it's great that offroaders are making use of Ham radio. The more the merrier. It's been nothing but good for the hobby and the industry that supports it. You can open any CQ or QST magazine and see ads that are clearly targeted for this group.
You have to keep in mind that most HF guys played on FM in their in their earliest experiences, and in most cases they continue to do so as they advance in knowledge, experience and license class to play on the HF bands as well. Most "HF guys" will have a greater knowledge of radio signal propogation of all types. Including the limitations of FM signals in mixed terrain (what we do). After all, who do you think is building and placing the repeaters that we offroading hams are using? Chances are it's a bunch of old "HF guys". Who do you think is writing the software that will predict and plot a repeaters coverage given its elevation and surrounding terrain? Yep, those guys.
To generalize or imply that "HF guys", or HF in general is a shackbound activity is ridiculous. Most "HF guys" also have HF and FM in their vehicles and RF doesn't care whether you're on pavement in the middle of nowhere, or on dirt in the middle of nowhere.... so your presumption is false. In fact, where these "offroad hams" might be inclined to recommend only 2m...the "HF guys" would advise that you have both. I doubt any would dismiss FM as being unnecessary. It's tough for me to reconcile this with being bad advice.
Here's the analogy I use:
In the boating community there are four accepted means of communication. One is VHF (FM), which is used for inland or nearshore waters. It's generally acceptable for boaters that make short trips to and from nearshore islands or close coastal trips from port to port. Most "pleasure boaters" are content with this service. And, in the analogy, this would be the equivalent to our 2m/70cm service. A simple FM unit would be my recommendation for people who stay close to home or repeater services.
Second to that is Marine HF. It's the minimum for boaters or cruisers that venture greater distances. It's been made simple and has been channelised for "non-radio" boating enthusiasts and is limited to 150w PEP. This serves nothing in the analogy because we have no equivalent service available for our pastime.
Third are the Amateur HF bands. They are perfect for the boaters/cruisers that venture greater distances or into remote areas. They are not channelised (most) and in most of the spectrum are allowed 1500w. And, like the offroading community, this is also a fast growing segment of the Ham community. The difference being, that most of these ocean-going sailors usually advance themselves into the General class in order to take advantage of HF's greater distance capability. It also affords them the benefits of WinLink (fax/e-mail) services. For the offroader who ventures greater distances or into remote places, I would recommend a radio with HF capability in addition to FM.
The fourth used is satellite phone. And, for all the same reasons mentioned for Amateur HF, I couldn't recommend them enough.
Ultimately, if you're just going out to do trail runs in the mountains or deserts nearby, you'll be fine with FM. If you're going to travel to more remote places, it's not bad advice to say you should consider HF or a satphone as well.
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Well my point which I guess I poorly conveyed . A guy that off roads has alot different equipment requirements then a person that is a experienced ham that does it as a stand alone hobby . Yes the pure ham radio guy will know more about rf related things but he does not know how certain radios hold up in 103 degree temps with 90% humidity or which piece of equipment can take extreme vibration all day . Now yes he can look at the equipment and make an educated guess but he does not have hands on experience in the field with it. Which right off the offroad guy doesnt either but over time he sees what works in his environment and builds his preference of equipment off of trail and error experiences .
For example according to all the experienced hams around here a ft2800 is a paper weight , but on the trail its prefect and cheap enough I can carry a spare if I think need be . Ive had one of my units rained on , snowed on and in all sorts of fun in blistering heat and dust and have not had one fail me as yet . Now I had a kenwood 700 in a my Toyota that I ended up selling because I had a few issues with it on the trail but according about all the hams around here its the best vhf uhf rig ever built . It might be but if it doesnt function in the conditions I need it to, its dead weight .
They can't tell me what HF screwdriver will hold up driving up stuff like this 2 to 4 days strait 4 or 5 times a year
They dont know what VHF rig mobile works most reliable in conditions from this with fog ,switching to 45 mph winds with driving rain snow and sleet in a open jeep , over 100 miles of trail
to
239 miles of dusty trails with temps in the upper 90s with high humidity
Now of course if I have a question thats directly ham radio related Ill go to a elmer ham , such as how much can I get away with bending a dipole with out greatly diminishing performance or what can I do to increase the performance of X antenna setup . But when it comes to crossing the hobbies I want to speak to someone thats been there done that .
For example according to all the experienced hams around here a ft2800 is a paper weight , but on the trail its prefect and cheap enough I can carry a spare if I think need be . Ive had one of my units rained on , snowed on and in all sorts of fun in blistering heat and dust and have not had one fail me as yet . Now I had a kenwood 700 in a my Toyota that I ended up selling because I had a few issues with it on the trail but according about all the hams around here its the best vhf uhf rig ever built . It might be but if it doesnt function in the conditions I need it to, its dead weight .
They can't tell me what HF screwdriver will hold up driving up stuff like this 2 to 4 days strait 4 or 5 times a year
They dont know what VHF rig mobile works most reliable in conditions from this with fog ,switching to 45 mph winds with driving rain snow and sleet in a open jeep , over 100 miles of trail
to
239 miles of dusty trails with temps in the upper 90s with high humidity
Now of course if I have a question thats directly ham radio related Ill go to a elmer ham , such as how much can I get away with bending a dipole with out greatly diminishing performance or what can I do to increase the performance of X antenna setup . But when it comes to crossing the hobbies I want to speak to someone thats been there done that .
xtatik
Explorer
Well, I'm gonna' disagree again. The reality is, most any mobile rig can handle the rigors of what you've described above, if mounted properly. The radios don't care much about wind, 103 degree temps or 90% humidity and they are designed for a high vibration environment. There are ham radios all over the world being operated continuously in worse climates and many are much more delicate than the mobile units you'd consider. Now, as for the "driving rain, sleet and snow" scenario you depict. If there were to be a failure here, it would not be the radio, it would be the operator. The mounting and placement of a radio might be something I'd consider taking to the offroader for advice, but I'd still be cautious with it and choose the right person to approach with my question. I would not go to the "trial and error" type of guy. I might do that if it were your radio, but not mine.:coffeedrink:
To take your example, the FT-2800 happens to be one of Yaesu's most problematic units. It has proven itself unreliable even in passenger cars. This has nothing to do with the vehicle it's mounted in or the type of service experienced while in the vehicle...it has everything to do with circuit design and componentry. It's built to be a cheap entry-level unit and it serves this purpose to some extent. But, it should not be confused as being any more "rugged" than another. It's internals and overall construction were given less consideration, not more, and this is why it's inexpensive.
As for screwdriver type antennas....by comparison to long-time hams, how many offroaders would you say have any experience with them? This is where assumptions in our offroad community are being made without experience and knowledge. It's assumed because of their size and weight that they couldn't hold up. Currently, screwdriver type antennas made by the same companies that serve the hobby are mounted on military vehicles throughout Iraq and Afghanistan and they're doing just fine handling vibration, shock, dust storms, sleet, snow, etc. Again, it's all in the mounting.
Tennmogger
Explorer
Ditto! Ask any of the older (time in service) ham operators on here how much wrong advise is given on this, and any, forum. They just smile when they read it, knowing no amount of suggestions will make one bit of difference. It's part of the learn by mistakes process. Once a new ham has had the Tech license for a couple of weeks and successfully put a mag mount antenna on top of the car, shut the door on the coax, and plugged into the cig lighter, they are an expert.
When getting into any new hobby one of the challenges is to learn the basics of the new "language". Best to do a little of that before you start asking too many questions. If you walk into a Ham Radio Outlet and ask "what's the best ham to buy", some wizea$$ might say "sugar cured".
The Ham is the person. That's the traditional usage among us 'old farts'. You don't talk on a ham, and you don't study ham, you are studying radio, of the Amateur/ham variety. Amateur Radio (not "Amature", yeck) is a more formal name for the hobby, of course.
Nit picky?, of course. But getting the very basics of a new hobby will really open up the conversation when you find that 'elmer' who really enjoys 'helping those who help themselves'.
Those hams who prefer HF and 6 meters have worked their way there, too. They have seen the limitations of 2 meters and moved on past that stage. That does not mean the basic theory is not the same.
Ham radio is a wonderful hobby and fits in so well with offroading/expeditioning, etc. That said, the most used radio in my truck when I'm out in Moab or on the trail anywhere with other offroad vehicles, is the CB. The technical requirements are just as rigorous for one type of radio as another.. Technically they are the same. It's just the rules and regs, and the people who use them, that make such a difference.
My comments are not made to slap anyone down but to give you a little boost in the right direction.
Bob WB4ETT
xtatik
Explorer
Yeah, I love it when I'll head out on a trip with people and after I ask "what kind of radio we'll we be using?"... I get the answer....."we use Ham."
Ham? errr, ummm....ok, Ham...hmmm? Of course, I understand they mean to say 2m, but it just sounds funny.
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xtatik
Explorer
Yeah, but some of us have to maintain that tradition also...:coffeedrink:
Tennmogger
Explorer
Personally, I work real hard at being an old fart LOL.
We need all the new people we can get in this hobby. It's fun to talk to new people, especially those who share other hobbies with us, like this forum. Assisting with technical issues is a pleasure, too.
For those of you who want a transceiver that will handle the dust and dirt, water, and even submerging, look into some of the older military packsets. I have been using a PRC-174 recently and can hardly look at a YeComWood any longer :ylsmoke:
Bob