Hard vs Soft Shell: Read World Efficiency

[OregonLC]

I guess I never thought of it in that way. If you can eliminate the roof rack that right there will save a considerable amount of weight.

Are you using load bars on a factory rack? I may still have my factory rack around somewhere. Right now I'm running Gamiviti towers on a custom built rack. I suppose I could nix the rack and mount bars to two or three of those towers though. Right now I'm about 85 lbs for the rack (not counting towers) plus 150 for the tent. That would drop from 235 combined to 167 plus the bars so maybe 180 total, saving 55 lbs in roof weight. Not to mention the noise reduction from not having the rack.

I suppose I'd lose utility though (Christmas trees, carrying lumber, etc) by not having a rack.

If you run just the load bars, what is your intention for mounting things like an awning?

 

[bagelsjustbagels]

I guess I never thought of it in that way. If you can eliminate the roof rack that right there will save a considerable amount of weight.

Are you using load bars on a factory rack? I may still have my factory rack around somewhere. Right now I'm running Gamiviti towers on a custom built rack. I suppose I could nix the rack and mount bars to two or three of those towers though. Right now I'm about 85 lbs for the rack (not counting towers) plus 150 for the tent. That would drop from 235 combined to 167 plus the bars so maybe 180 total, saving 55 lbs in roof weight. Not to mention the noise reduction from not having the rack.

I suppose I'd lose utility though (Christmas trees, carrying lumber, etc) by not having a rack.

If you run just the load bars, what is your intention for mounting things like an awning?

He can mount the awning directly to the side of the tent shell.

Interested to know how Hard shell versus soft shell varying if effecting MPG. Are hard shell REALLY that more aerodynamic?

 

[Dusty Grin]

I have owned an Eezi-Awn series 3 soft roof tent and then a Maggiolina crank up roof tent after that. It was such a relief to not have to have frozen fingers dealing with that soft dirty cover when I was winter camping. It's true you have to tuck in the material on the hardshell but its not too bad.
Then I bought an Oztent Rv3 with peaked roof inside panels to go at the back of the land cruiser. I learned to Love all the space and the ease for getting out to go to the bathroom and just hang out under the awning.
My vote would be hard shell tent first, then I would choose the oztent next, and finally the soft roof tent as it was still a ton of fun even though it took a while to put it away.
I have now moved on to a pop top troop carrier with a heater inside so I'm not looking back. But I've enjoyed each set up along the way.

Oh, as far as storing things on top with the hardshell tent, I had a solar panel on a slider underneath the tent. That was about all I could carry up there though. You really do lose a lot of real estate with the hardshell's on top. I did not notice any fuel mileage loss but mine only weighed 97 pounds and was very low profile (carbon fiber)

 

[dcg141]

I have a soft RTT and I have done some mods to help make it a little faster to put up. Mine is on a trailer so wind noise is not a factor for me. Also I tend to use it for a several day base camp setup more than a true overlanding one. I think if I did more of that style of camping with setups every day I would get an OZ Tent. I may get on in addition to my RTT and use them accordingly.

 

[coledudley]

A couple thoughts on how to manage reduced roof storage space.

Generally, having the JB has been a forcing function for downsizing what we take with us as well as simply needing to get more creative. We did get the "Extreme" version which has a storage area on top of the tent. I store the following items up there inside the JB luggage back: camp toilet, leveling blocks, XJack, recovery tracks, snow peak fireplace, wheel chokes, and some tarps. Some of the items need to come out in order to open the tent but that just takes a couple seconds.

Storage space is especially at a premium since we travel with a large dog who takes up the second row in the cruiser. We use a dog hammock to give him support, but generally don't have anything else in the seats.

Fuel, water, and firewood is probably where we have to make the most tradeoffs. For drinking water, we switched to 2 gallon dromedary bags that can fit virtually anywhere. We store ours on the floor of the second row. Beyond the drinking water, we like to carry 2 Scepter cans of water and 1-2 jerry cans of fuel. We do have hitch storage options (a small curt rack and a Stowaway) that make it easy to handle all the fluids and firewood if we're doing light offroading and distributed camping only. If we're doing moderate offroading, then we try to make it work with no hitch storage due to the departure angle. As an example, we use the hitch storage if we're exploring Big Sur, the Lost Coast, or the desert but almost always leave the hitch storage at home if we're in the Sierras.

In those cases, we simply make room in the cargo area for the water cans AND the fuel. I know there are some clear tradeoffs with that and often we'll need actively monitor the fuel cans when we're changing elevations. We use good cans, maintain and replace gaskets, and make a point to use the fuel as soon as we need it. So far so good.

 

[Wallygator]

Ok so I do not have a roof top tent and never have but I am very interested in this conversation because I simply do not know what to get. Whatever I get it will be mounted to a trailer for a base camp type setup that can also be used to move daily. As far as the Oz tent goes, I think it's great but I am tired of sleeping on the ground now after decades of doing so. I want some comfort now so seriously looking at rtt's.

I am almost dead set on getting a soft clam shell style like a CVT Mt Rainier because of the fact it will come with an annex. I understand the setup is longer with a clam shell but it's definitely not longer than what I am used to with a ground tent. Set up the tent, unpack the cots, blow up the mattresses, bring clothes and bedding into the tent, etc...it takes a long time to do this and just as long packing up. With the clam shell tent I figure the annex will be a great storage addition as well as being able to use it as another place to sleep if I have guests. Can keep the toilet in there at night. Can prob even cook in there in a pinch. So the annex is a big selling point for me on the clam shell tents. I keep hearing about noise from the rain fly during high winds. Is this really a problem? Can the rain fly be secured better?

With the hard shell tent I can't seem to get over the amazing cost of them knowing it's basically just a mattress and two pieces of fiberglass with some canvas in between. And again no extra storage options or room like an annex provides. Another disadvantage I feel is getting in and out of it when the weather is bad. With the annex on the clam shell, there really would be no need to exit the tent in order to take care of business per se, in a storm. I want to like the hard shell as they are very nice, durable, and minimalist in nature. But Am I missing something here? Again I have never had one but given the price of the hard shell and my concerns listed above, are they worth it to save ten minutes pack a way time???

 

[OregonLC]

Everyone I've seen use a softshell on a trailer hasn't had a complaint. They're usually mounted lower and the footprint of the tent folded is about the same as the trailer. So reaching zippers, etc is much easier and deployment/take down is much easier.

The annex is indeed a pain to setup. I can't imagine ever wanting to use it if it were just me. I suppose off season or in areas where bugs or thunderstorms were more of a factor that could change things. Only time mine has been installed is with the wife/kids.

 

[Wallygator]

I should have clarified, the annex would only be used for multi-day stays in one spot with family. By myself it will never be deployed. I am currently on the east coast and it rains here all the time. So even without the annex the clam shell will provide some protection during a rain/snow while entering and exiting the tent more so than a hard shell, correct?

 

[OregonLC]

Roger that.

Many soft shell tents do have an extension that covers well beyond the ladder. The downside is that you lose the view from the ladder side completely making it necessary to install the spring rods on the other side(s) if you want to look out adding to the setup time. Having that additional dry space is indeed nice though. However a wet soft shell tent is one more thing to manage when you get home to properly dry it out. I've had mine open at work a few times to ensure mildew didn't take hold. Same would be true for wet fabric on a hard shell, however the setup time penalty to dry it out is much less.

 

[The Raven]

The softshell are horrible in the wind. The hardshell is much better. The fabric in the softshell is thinner and wears quicker than the hardshell. The softshell mattress is low quality and uncomfortable. Softshell, most are made in China...hardshell Italy and Portugal. You get what you pay for.

 

[Dusty Grin]

The softshell are horrible in the wind. The hardshell is much better. The fabric in the softshell is thinner and wears quicker than the hardshell. The softshell mattress is low quality and uncomfortable. Softshell, most are made in China...hardshell Italy and Portugal. You get what you pay for.

There are several brands of soft tent that have heavy duty material with other high quality parts. Eeziawn and Autohome both have excellent material.

 

[Wallygator]

Roger that.

Many soft shell tents do have an extension that covers well beyond the ladder. The downside is that you lose the view from the ladder side completely making it necessary to install the spring rods on the other side(s) if you want to look out adding to the setup time. Having that additional dry space is indeed nice though. However a wet soft shell tent is one more thing to manage when you get home to properly dry it out. I've had mine open at work a few times to ensure mildew didn't take hold. Same would be true for wet fabric on a hard shell, however the setup time penalty to dry it out is much less.

Thanks for your insight Oregon, I didn't even think about the view on that side. I have a Kodiak canvas tent now so I'm well aware of the mildew and need to dry out issue...in fact its quite the chore with this tent. Hopefully it's not that much of a pain with a RTT. Are you looking to get a hard shell? If so, why?

The softshell are horrible in the wind. The hardshell is much better. The fabric in the softshell is thinner and wears quicker than the hardshell. The softshell mattress is low quality and uncomfortable. Softshell, most are made in China...hardshell Italy and Portugal. You get what you pay for.

I understand about where they are made seems to be a concern for a lot of people but believe it or not you can get quality from China. Also I think your other concerns about how horrible a soft shell is will depend on which model soft shell. I am looking at the CVT MT Rainier extended, ruggedized, so it's not your normal soft shell. I am also looking at a JB model hard shell but am leaning towards the CVT because of more space and the concerns I posted above. This decision is exhausting because either way it's a lot of money to spend. Coming from a Kodiak ground tent I'm sure I will like either one but would like to make the right choice from the start. Especially since the price between the two is over a thousand dollars!

 

[vision-quest]

Ok so I do not have a roof top tent and never have but I am very interested in this conversation because I simply do not know what to get. Whatever I get it will be mounted to a trailer for a base camp type setup that can also be used to move daily. As far as the Oz tent goes, I think it's great but I am tired of sleeping on the ground now after decades of doing so. I want some comfort now so seriously looking at rtt's.

I am almost dead set on getting a soft clam shell style like a CVT Mt Rainier because of the fact it will come with an annex. I understand the setup is longer with a clam shell but it's definitely not longer than what I am used to with a ground tent. Set up the tent, unpack the cots, blow up the mattresses, bring clothes and bedding into the tent, etc...it takes a long time to do this and just as long packing up. With the clam shell tent I figure the annex will be a great storage addition as well as being able to use it as another place to sleep if I have guests. Can keep the toilet in there at night. Can prob even cook in there in a pinch. So the annex is a big selling point for me on the clam shell tents. I keep hearing about noise from the rain fly during high winds. Is this really a problem? Can the rain fly be secured better?

With the hard shell tent I can't seem to get over the amazing cost of them knowing it's basically just a mattress and two pieces of fiberglass with some canvas in between. And again no extra storage options or room like an annex provides. Another disadvantage I feel is getting in and out of it when the weather is bad. With the annex on the clam shell, there really would be no need to exit the tent in order to take care of business per se, in a storm. I want to like the hard shell as they are very nice, durable, and minimalist in nature. But Am I missing something here? Again I have never had one but given the price of the hard shell and my concerns listed above, are they worth it to save ten minutes pack a way time???

I currently own a CVT soft shell so I can chime in. I'll be upgrading to a hard shell for the following reasons:

1. Set-up and pack-down times. It takes me maybe 5-10 minutes to set up, maybe 15 to pack down. Not too bad, but it SUCKS when it's cold out in the morning to be packing up and can hurt your fingers pretty bad trying to get everything in the cover and the zip around.

2. SO damn noisy on my roof on the highway.

3. I get 15 MPG on the highway in a 2008 4Runner. Less than in the city. Highway speeds really hurt my MPG with this thing on top.

4. This thing SUCKS in the wind. You'd be far better off in a tent on the ground. The rain fly on top makes an incredible amount of noise and I really think this is possibly my biggest gripe with the tent.

5. The mattress is rubbish. After a short amount of time the area where my hips are isn't soft anymore. I have to put a pillow there.