Hello From NZ and help with a Big decision to make

[Madoxen]

First of all Hello to Everyone and well done on such a fantastic site.
We Live on the South Island of NZ and have been into 4 wheel driving hunting and camping out in the middle of knowwhere for a long time. We currently have a His and Hers (pair of Landcruisers) which get both of us into and out of all sorts of trouble ,

We have wanted to build a 4x4 Expodition vehicle for some time but it is only now that we have been activly looking for the truck best suited to the job. It needs to be as capable as the cruisers with alot more room so have set some must haves for the truck. It has to have 4x4 front center and rear diff locs , be able to have a minimum of 4.6mtr box with a max of 5.2 which means a wheelbase of 3.55 as a minimum.

we have narrowed it down to 4 vehicles
1 = 2013 merc atego 1324a with 3.6 wheelbase (Just cab and chassis) chassis 4.3mt area so can overhang with box frame
2 = 2002 Merc actros 1834 with a 5mtr wheelbase (Cab & 5.6 m flatdeck and 3 tonn crane on rear)
3 = 1985 Unimog 1700 with the 352a motor 3.85 wheelbase ( cab & 4.3flat deck and of course the unimog antitorsion already set up)
4 = 2008 Man 1829 with 3.6 wheel base (cab & 4.6mtr flat deck )

all of the above are within 20% of each other for price.
we do plan on travel outside of NZ but realy dont care if the truck is new old or agricultural.
Capability is a big deal with us. and yes the mog is the most capable but will also be the (maybe) worst for comfort on open road. the 2013 is alot of truck for the money but it is also alot of computer and we all know the computer says NO
the 2002 and 2008 trucks newer and so so heavy on the computer but still use alot of electronics.
all of the above should be ok for getting parts around the world but the merc (not mog) and man will prob be easier to get in some places.

going for another test drive in the mog shortly to get a better idea of cruise speed ( not a massive deal but still nice to know what we are in for )

any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreaciated.

Many thanks

 

[DiploStrat]

Free advice is worth what you pay for it.

I have owned two overland camper vans, a 2013 Tiger, based on a one ton Chevrolet pickup (ute, if you prefer) and now an XPCamper, built on a 1990 Mercedes 917. In the past, I have traveled in Chevrolet Blazers, Toyota Land Cruisers, and an Isuzu Trooper, all in Africa and South America.

-- For 'round the world, long term travel, "capability" is much, much over rated. I would rule out the Unimog based on cost/complexity/noise and (lack of) speed. By the time you build a house on a Unimog you are looking at enough size and weight to make the capabilities of a Unimog irrelevant. Basic 4WD and low range should get you what you need.

-- The roads of the world are a lot better than they were when I started out, most are paved and some of the most interesting (central Sahara) are closed for all practical purposes.

-- Computers are not the kiss of death. The Howes (http://www.travelin-tortuga.com/Travelin-Tortuga/index.html) have been traveling with one for years. So have the Tucks (https://www.tuckstruck.net/).

-- Parts and specialized tools are ALWAYS an issue, but an issue that can be addressed by a bit of planning.

-- Short wheel bases are nice for parking at coffee shops, but can be tiring on long drives and a handful in mud/snow/rain.

Our 917, now with new wheels/tires can reach 60mph/100kph, but I really miss the power and the lower noise of the Chevrolet 6.6l diesel. If I could do it over, I would go with a more modern truck - you are going to spend a lot more time on paved roads than you expect.

Consider the comments of folks like Pat Hay and Joe Morris - they speak from real, and recent, experience.

And come visit when you get to the States!

 

[CragMog]

Decide on the condition of the roads you will be travelling on and work backwards. A 12 ton Unimog fully laden won't snap it's chassis or axles when twisted up in very bad offroad conditions or being smashed on heavily corrugated roads. It won't go up a sand dune unless you have V-treads. An Atego will romp along at 100kmph all day long in relative comfort, but beware of overloading the chassis and smashing it over heavy corrugations and ruts. It doesn't have the approach, ramp-over or departure angles of a Mog so stick to reasonably surfaced roads, sand tracks, etc.
Decide on your level of comfort and work backwards. If you have to have a washing machine, microwave, convection oven, 600l of water, motorbike.......then the Man and Actros are likely candidates. If not, then try to build as light as possible given you will still be way heavier than a Landcruiser and that is in itself a limitation.
Decide on your extreme heat and cold limits and whether you are remote or tethered to power and water and work backwards. This has nothing to do with the truck selected, but is probably the most important factor in what you select. For remote reliability the Mog is without challenge from the others. Feed it fuel and fanbelts and it goes just about anywhere.

I'm biased. I have a Mog, 1986 U1300L. It's relatively quiet (easily achieved), it cruises at 100kmph at 2,250 revs (overdrive and upgraded portals), it's reliable (lots spend on putting meat back on the bones) and mostly I just love driving it. It won't be your cheapest option, regardless of purchase price.

 

[Sitec]

Firstly hello and welcome! Yes, this forum (and of course this section in particular) is fantastic! I have learned heaps of useful stuff here and hopefully helped (or confused) a few! We had the same dilemma a few years back when deciding on trucks. I have driven Ag Mogs in the UK. They are awesome off road and surprisingly good on road. They are tall and ungainly though, and not that fast on the road... However, the Ex Aus Army Mogs look to be bigger, and are poss faster. I don't know enough to usefully comment on them. I was lucky enough to spend several years driving older Mercedes NG trucks in Africa, carrying passengers, so our decision was made easier by previous experience. Mercedes and MAN parts seem to be available worldwide, and easily found too. When I was in Africa, computerised trucks were not an option. I'm still not convinced they are. I sell ECU controlled tractors for a living and they are not without their problems... All the trucks you have listed seem to be good options. It would be worth carrying a basic reader though. I personally like older mechanical engined trucks, that I can fix on the side of the road.

Another way of looking t it... Once you have bought your truck, and built your dream mobile home on it, realistically how far 'off road' do you plan to go? We plan to do the bulk of Oz and NZ and will get off road, but are not going rock crawling! Good luck in your choice, and post some pics of your options!

 

[sg1]

It is difficult to comment on your trucks without knowing where you want to go. I would not take the Unimog. It is a very rare vehicle worldwide and parts are difficult to get. It has a lot of parts which are not standard MB parts. From experience I know that it is in its stock configuration not build for long fast highway trips. You would have to modify the portals and change the gearing.
The other trucks are all good and will get you where you want to go. If you want to do international travel you should check whether the Atego already has diesel particulate filters or DEF. I would avoid that because it needs ultra low sulphur diesel which is not readily available everywhere. Other than that take the truck which is in the best technical condition.
By the way we will head out to ND right after New Year and spend 9 weeks there. We are really looking forward to exploring your beautiful country.

 

[grizzlyj]

Our U1700 was 9500kg fully full, about 3.8m tall, could do 55mph but 50 was better on 395 85 R20 XZLs, working gears, exhaust brake, no overdrive, intercooled by Atkinson Vos, not quite 10 UK mpg. Turning circle was ace, was lovely to drive and easy to position. 7th to 8th was a bit of a jump and I wish I had had the cash for an overdrive at the time. On road was ok but maybe wouldn't be in countries with fast (more than 55) hgvs. Some still do though. I'd rather go and find places to play with it than have a more road based truck and not be able to. Almost the only issues we had were with bits modified from the Merc standard. Personally I wouldn't try and make it go faster than it was designed to. That was fine for two of us. A Mog does eat into camper box length with the bonnet, and from memory the max box length recommended by Merc is broadly the same as the wheelbase.
Have fun

 

[Neil]

Hi and welcome to the forum

My advice would be similar to Simons ( Sitec). I would recommend going simple. Nearly everything mechanical can be fixed on the road. Complex electronics bring their own challenges when they play up.

I would avoid anything over Euro 5 if you want to go over 3000m. despite what some people tell you we have now met many overlanders in modern truck whos journeys and dreams have been shattered by uncontrollable technology which shuts them down over 3000m.

We have a merc 1017a . So far it has managed most things. It returns about 15 to the gallon and will sit on the highway all day at 100 kmph . It can never be described as a a true off road vehicle but is a great Bad road vehicle. Its a solid simple work horse. there are lots of vehicles of different makes out there that fit this profile.

Re Unimogs, I love them. However, for most overladers they are unnecesarily complex and are rarely used to their capabilities. Once you invest tens of thousands on yor cabin you are unlikey to then drive it through 1 meter of water. 99% of overlanding is on roads of various surfaces.

Our truck has 4wd and I am always proud when we climb up a gravel mountain track with shear drops to then park in the car park next to all the coaches. For me true off road capability isnt top of my list of priorities.

From our experience I would not go longer than 8m and no higher than 3.5m . Anything above these dimensions brings extra complications and considerations.

Good luck with all your choices. It will consume you and take over your entire life.

Best wishes and again welcome. Always ask on here , there is a lot of great experience to be tapped from a nice bunch

Neil

 

[Madoxen]

Thank you Guys for the great input and links, we realy do appreaciate the time you took to answer. this truely is becoming quite a hard decision to make but I dont think there is a wrong answer with the options we have infront of us.
When my partner was reading the reply she piped up and said but we are not like most people, if there is the option of a road or an impossable off the seat of your pants route we almost always end up on the latter. but we do have to acknowledge that we will have to crunch through some longer from a to b routes on any form of road for alot of the time.

As I said in my earlia post we were off to have another drive of the 1700L mog which we both liked the tope speed as we drove it was 82kph @ 2600 rpm so i think the govner has been set to 2600 which would not be hard to adjust to 3000/3100 which i have read is safe on the 352a motor. we could comunicate with each other via raised voices but there was no door pannals and no mats down so i thnk it could be made much quieter.

I have just managed to figure outr how to put pics in

me in the mog


Does anyone know what the dial with the green ring bottom left does with the s1 s2 s3 and tag ?


below the atego chassis wb3.56mt 4.3 mtr usable chassis for box

 

[Madoxen]

Hello Neil, hehe i have spent too many hrs looking over your build and reading your blog fantastic work and can only hope to achieve something like your collection of experiences

2013 Atego is blutech 5 /euro 5 so might be ok , it is the 6 speed manual box and has rear center and front diff locs as well as high low trans

 

[Neil]

The Atego is a great vehicle. however, Adblue isnt available in many places so you have to take this into account. Glad you liked the blog on our truck build.

Always ask

Neil

 

[Madoxen]

Adblue has been disabled /tricked off as it spent its life in fields not roads

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

My own view it that Unimogs and the like are physically too big for many tracks in Oz.
The wide track means they pick up tyre stakes on the edges of tracks that narrower tracked vehicles generally avoid.
The height means that they will come into conflict with a lot more trees too.

Highly biased of course, but our OKA seems to tick most of the boxes.
No electronics. Narrower track. Rigid chassis (allowing a bed over cab configuration which dramatically improves living space). Looong leaf springs for superior performance on lousy roads and tracks. Simple mechanicals - Dana axles.
Dimensions of our rig are 6m overall (including rear spares) x 2.16m wide x 3.05m high.
Some very short video clips...
There are some in South Africa, Europe, & New Guinea, but I am not aware of any in New Zealand so you might need to get one in Oz.
Ours is 1994 and has 550k km on the clock. The pdf below is for a later version, mechanicals were very different, but dimensions very similar.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[sg1]

Hello Neil, hehe i have spent too many hrs looking over your build and reading your blog fantastic work and can only hope to achieve something like your collection of experiences

2013 Atego is blutech 5 /euro 5 so might be ok , it is the 6 speed manual box and has rear center and front diff locs as well as high low trans

View attachment 557039

No Euro 5 can be a problem. It has a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and a ECU which controls all the emission control systems. It will put your engine in limp mode once it detects a problem in your system like a full DPF. The problem is that the ECU is only programmed to optimize combustion up to 3,000m above that a modern diesel does what old diesels do, it smokes. If you have high sulphur diesel this will add even more smoke and aggressive particulates to your exhaust. All this goes into your DPF with the result that it clogs and your engine goes in limp mode. Neil was referring to that in his post. In 5 years on the Panam I met quite a few travelers with this problem if their engine was higher than Euro3 and hadn´t been modified by reprogramming the ECU and removing emission control systems.

 

[Madoxen]

In 5 years on the Panam I met quite a few travelers with this problem if their engine was higher than Euro3 and hadn´t been modified by reprogramming the ECU and removing emission control systems.

Yeah ECU will be modded already but might need to re mod it for the DPF and emissions. .

hehehe which ever route i look down there are lots of things that will need to be done (Atego 4 point system and ecu ) (Mog sound and comfort and figuring out how to keep overall height down to a minimum ). which ever way will be an adventure and all part of the over all journey

y the way we will head out to ND right after New Year and spend 9 weeks there. We are really looking forward to exploring your beautiful country.

Let us know when u are near would be happy to say hello and maybe point you in some good directions of places to visist

 

[charlieaarons]

You don’t want to run a 352a at 3100rpm. Noise and consumption will be incredible. Get a Claas overdrive.
With it rpms at 89kph will be a reasonable 2320. Assuming same size tires.