Help: Carli/Deaver Rear Springs 06 Ram

[primussucks]

Happy New Year travelers.

Coming to the forum for some guidance.

I'll start with a quick description of the truck.
06 Ram 2500 4x4. 6.5ft bed
Aluminum Flatbed (~350 lbs.)
8' Alaskan Camper (~1700 lbs dry)
315/70/r17 Tires.
Prior to the upgrade, all the springs were stock. Shocks were Bilstien 5100s. No lift, etc. I have PacBrake rear airbags and Hellwig BigWig sway bar.
185k miles

Overall, truck handled pretty good. Suspension seemed to be softening, and big bumps it seemed to bottom out. The sway bar addition made a huge difference in handling, but I felt that there was still more improvement needed. Offroad attitude wasn't as 'tight' as I would like it when traveling 20-25 mph down a desert stretch, or winding through the mountain roads in Colorado. So, I worked with my trusted advisor (who worked with his distributor and Carli directly) and we decided on the following for a suspension upgrade.

When designing the system, we didn't want to add too much height, and we wanted to maintian a good highway attitude, while providing off road performance. I spend a lot of time in the desert and mountains of the Southwest (USA). Which means traveling down a lot of washboard and forest service roads with occasional off camber and clearance situations.

In the front. We decided to go with Thuren springs, as they are not as big of a 'lift' as the Carli, and are also a little softer on the ride for road travel. So.. Thuren Soft Ride springs with Carli tuned Backcountry Fox 2.0 remote reservoir shocks. Carli control arms, Carli adjustable sway bar ends, Carli Adjustable track bar

In the rear we went with the same Carli Backcountry Fox 2.0 remote reservoir shocks and the Carli HD leafs. Carli claims the HD leafs are for "loads with constant 1500+ lbs payload).

Carli recomendeded removing the rear air bags and sway bar. So we did.

Truck height was good in the rear withOUT the camper. Once we put the camper on, the rear springs dropped, dramatically. So much that it became undrivable due to the bed rubbing on the tires with the camper loaded on.

Since I had a trip coming up, I put the air bags back on, to give me some ride height back. Bags filled to 60 psi and I obtain enough clearance to get around. The problem is, the handling (steering especially) is terrible. Truck is bouncing all over the road.

We have been trying for 8+ weeks to get a hold of the engineer at Carli that recomended the setup, but both he and Carli have been nonexistent. We have numerous emails and phone calls into them, and they continue to ignore the situation or make any attempt to make the situation right. Frankly, I'm beyond disappointed in how Carli is handling the situation. When we designed the system. We gave Carli all the inputs. Empty truck weight (both axles, from the CAT scales). Also gave them the fully loaded truck weights from the CAT scales. They knew exactly what camper, weights and scenario we were designing for. They recommended the HD springs.. no air bags and no sway bar.

So I'm coming here.. Where hopefully some smart folks can help me get this sorted and back on the road, since Carli is of no help, and won't stand behind there product.

Maybe a helper pack?

I see Hellwig makes a variety of packs, as well as others.

Any guidance/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jkron]

If you are looking to remove the airbags, I would find a local heavy duty spring shop, and have them either add to the pack, or make one. I had a similar situation in my super duty. I have a flatbed and a FWC Hawk UTE, and ran air bags for a bit, until I had a failure. I went to a local spring shop that works on HD trucks, with the camper on, told them how I wanted it to sit, the amount of additional weight I may add, and they made a pack for the truck. No air bags, anymore, and the truck handles great. I would still run the sway bar in the back

I also had Accutune set up a set of Fox shocks for the axle weights as well. I am running the 2.0 Foxes as a holdover, until the 2.5's become available. This made a huge improvement on how the truck drove and handled as well.

I can't remember off the top of my head who makes the springs for Carli (maybe Deaver?), but sometimes it's better to go to a place in person, so the pack gets built correctly the first time.

 

[primussucks]

If you are looking to remove the airbags, I would find a local heavy duty spring shop, and have them either add to the pack, or make one. I had a similar situation in my super duty. I have a flatbed and a FWC Hawk UTE, and ran air bags for a bit, until I had a failure. I went to a local spring shop that works on HD trucks, with the camper on, told them how I wanted it to sit, the amount of additional weight I may add, and they made a pack for the truck. No air bags, anymore, and the truck handles great. I would still run the sway bar in the back

I also had Accutune set up a set of Fox shocks for the axle weights as well. I am running the 2.0 Foxes as a holdover, until the 2.5's become available. This made a huge improvement on how the truck drove and handled as well.

I can't remember off the top of my head who makes the springs for Carli (maybe Deaver?), but sometimes it's better to go to a place in person, so the pack gets built correctly the first time.

Thank you.
Yes.. Deaver does make the packs for Carli, at least the HD one. They claim to make them to Carli specs. So far, we've been trying to work through Carli, but like I mentioned, they have turned into ghosts. Not what I expected from such a reputable company.

Ideally, i'd like to eliminate the air bags, I don't like things that could fail while I'm out in the backcountry. Air Bags are only back on so I can at least move around town, not my ideal end state, considering how much those HD Carli leafs were.

I agree on the sway bar. Hellwig sells an extdended arm to make the BigWig compatible with lifted rear.

I'm in Dallas, so getting out to Carli is a bit of a haul... Maybe I'll look for a spring shop locally.

 

[jkron]

Bummer on Carli's lack of communication.

I ditched the air bags as well after a failure in the back country. Thats when I decided to just have a pack made locally. That way its done right the first time. The shop that did mine did semi's and other large truck suspension work, so may be worth checking around your area for shops like that. Cost me around $1000 bucks with install and new hardware.

I have had bad luck in the past with Deaver, and having to ship the springs back to them to re-do them even after providing specific weights and measurements. I had it happen two separate times, since it can be hard to nail it on the first try when the truck is not in front of them. Thats why it might be best to get a set made locally, and just sell the carli/deaver springs to put the ordeal behind you and move on. I understand its not ideal, but might be the easiest.

 

[eyemgh]

Who spec’d HD leaf pack? I have a F350, with a flatbed and a 1200 lb. dry camper coming. Carli spec’d the XHD leaf pack. It isn’t listed on their website. It is tuned for a constant 2000 lbs. If you’re loaded, you’re putting 3000 lbs. on a leaf pack designed to handle half the weight. Best case scenario it’s 550 lbs. overloaded dry. It seems like they just chose the wrong leaf pack.

 

[eyemgh]

You may want to read the Carli post below. Again, it's SD and not Ram, but I would think their nomenclature would be similar. On my truck, to carry that much weight, 500 pounds less than you, they require the Pintop kit (2.5 Kings) and use the XHD leaf pack. It's a huge bummer, but it sounds like whoever advised you completely screwed the pooch. Since Carli doesn't sell direct, where did you buy it?

Ford Super Duty Leveling Leaf Spring Load Test

The Carli Deavers - they're synonymous with the elusive "buttery" ride quality touted by Carli-equipped HD enthusiasts. With this rear compliance comes capacity degradation. It wasn't much to talk about when we started offering our version of the Deaver Spring; you remember... back in the day...

carlisuspension.com

 

[Climber Rob]

Happy New Year travelers.

Coming to the forum for some guidance.

I'll start with a quick description of the truck.
06 Ram 2500 4x4. 6.5ft bed
Aluminum Flatbed (~350 lbs.)
8' Alaskan Camper (~1700 lbs dry)
315/70/r17 Tires.
Prior to the upgrade, all the springs were stock. Shocks were Bilstien 5100s. No lift, etc. I have PacBrake rear airbags and Hellwig BigWig sway bar.
185k miles

Overall, truck handled pretty good. Suspension seemed to be softening, and big bumps it seemed to bottom out. The sway bar addition made a huge difference in handling, but I felt that there was still more improvement needed. Offroad attitude wasn't as 'tight' as I would like it when traveling 20-25 mph down a desert stretch, or winding through the mountain roads in Colorado. So, I worked with my trusted advisor (who worked with his distributor and Carli directly) and we decided on the following for a suspension upgrade.

When designing the system, we didn't want to add too much height, and we wanted to maintian a good highway attitude, while providing off road performance. I spend a lot of time in the desert and mountains of the Southwest (USA). Which means traveling down a lot of washboard and forest service roads with occasional off camber and clearance situations.

In the front. We decided to go with Thuren springs, as they are not as big of a 'lift' as the Carli, and are also a little softer on the ride for road travel. So.. Thuren Soft Ride springs with Carli tuned Backcountry Fox 2.0 remote reservoir shocks. Carli control arms, Carli adjustable sway bar ends, Carli Adjustable track bar

In the rear we went with the same Carli Backcountry Fox 2.0 remote reservoir shocks and the Carli HD leafs. Carli claims the HD leafs are for "loads with constant 1500+ lbs payload).

Carli recomendeded removing the rear air bags and sway bar. So we did.

Truck height was good in the rear withOUT the camper. Once we put the camper on, the rear springs dropped, dramatically. So much that it became undrivable due to the bed rubbing on the tires with the camper loaded on.

Since I had a trip coming up, I put the air bags back on, to give me some ride height back. Bags filled to 60 psi and I obtain enough clearance to get around. The problem is, the handling (steering especially) is terrible. Truck is bouncing all over the road.

We have been trying for 8+ weeks to get a hold of the engineer at Carli that recomended the setup, but both he and Carli have been nonexistent. We have numerous emails and phone calls into them, and they continue to ignore the situation or make any attempt to make the situation right. Frankly, I'm beyond disappointed in how Carli is handling the situation. When we designed the system. We gave Carli all the inputs. Empty truck weight (both axles, from the CAT scales). Also gave them the fully loaded truck weights from the CAT scales. They knew exactly what camper, weights and scenario we were designing for. They recommended the HD springs.. no air bags and no sway bar.

So I'm coming here.. Where hopefully some smart folks can help me get this sorted and back on the road, since Carli is of no help, and won't stand behind there product.

Maybe a helper pack?

I see Hellwig makes a variety of packs, as well as others.

Any guidance/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Have you contacted Carli directly, or is this all through your "trusted advisor" or distributor?

 

[primussucks]

You may want to read the Carli post below. Again, it's SD and not Ram, but I would think their nomenclature would be similar. On my truck, to carry that much weight, 500 pounds less than you, they require the Pintop kit (2.5 Kings) and use the XHD leaf pack. It's a huge bummer, but it sounds like whoever advised you completely screwed the pooch. Since Carli doesn't sell direct, where did you buy it?

Ford Super Duty Leveling Leaf Spring Load Test

The Carli Deavers - they're synonymous with the elusive "buttery" ride quality touted by Carli-equipped HD enthusiasts. With this rear compliance comes capacity degradation. It wasn't much to talk about when we started offering our version of the Deaver Spring; you remember... back in the day...

carlisuspension.com

Carli spec'd it. We provided all our CAT scale weights, loaded and unloaded.. and this is what they recommended..

 

[primussucks]

Have you contacted Carli directly, or is this all through your "trusted advisor" or distributor?

All of the above.
This is how Carli is handling the situation.
Apparently, Tyler is a contract employee.. and has been in and out over the last 2 months. So i'm told. Either case.. reaching them has been a nightmare.

We are all working remote.. I don't understand why Dan working remotely has any impact on replying to an email.

 

[eyemgh]

Ultimately, whoever sold it to you and installed it is responsible to you. They sold you an under spec’d system, regardless of who advised them to do so. It’s really on them to make it right.

If Carli advised them to install that with your weight, they should reimburse your installer for both parts and time. As badly as you probably feel for them, it’s not your battle.

Then the question becomes what’s the right setup? The Fox setup will probably be fine, but at those weights, Carli’s own website recommends 2.5 Kings. Someone who knows a lot more about suspension than me will have to clarify that.

What‘s clearly wrong is the leaf pack. If you’re going to stick with a Carli designed and branded Deaver, you’re sort of in no man’s land. The XHD is for constant loads of 1800-2000 pounds. XXHD…3500. Loaded, you’ll be in the middle. I’d be inclined to see if you can get your money back for the leaf springs, including labor, and have Deaver, Alcan, or Atlas do a custom pack.

Good luck!

 

[primussucks]

Thanks everyone..
Looking at Carli's website.. they don't have anything greater than the HD for my truck.
We are going to head to a shop locally and have someone properly spec and build them. If anyone has a recomendation of a shop in/near Dallas, let me know. We have a place in mind, but curious if anyone has local experience.

We'll figure out how to deal with Carli and taking back the wrong stuff they sold us.

I wish they would have just said "Sorry, we don't have the right stuff for you" instead of "Sure.. try this $2k leaf pack". Now we know.

 

[eyemgh]

Thanks everyone..
Looking at Carli's website.. they don't have anything greater than the HD for my truck.
We are going to head to a shop locally and have someone properly spec and build them. If anyone has a recomendation of a shop in/near Dallas, let me know. We have a place in mind, but curious if anyone has local experience.

We'll figure out how to deal with Carli and taking back the wrong stuff they sold us.

I wish they would have just said "Sorry, we don't have the right stuff for you" instead of "Sure.. try this $2k leaf pack". Now we know.

They don't list the XHD or the XXHD for the Ford platform, but they do sell them. It's probably the same for the RAM. That said, you'd be in the middle. Best of luck!

 

[primussucks]

I've got someone at Carli responding now.. We shall see what happens.
Thanks folks..
I'll report back with the outcome.

 

[Inline6]

isn't this their heavy duty rear spring option
CS-DFSP-03-D-HD
- 2" rear lift maintains slight rear-hight stance with Carli 3" Systems
- Softens initial spring rate at ride height
- Minimizes axle wrap/wheel hop
- Designed for those with 1,500lbs. in bed at all times
- Capable of 15" of suspension travel with factory shackle
- Fits 4.0" Axle Tube

right from the web site: https://carlisuspension.com/product...3-09-components/dodge-full-spring-packs-2003/

FWIW, I have a full spring pack on the 04 from a different company and the Carli airbags. I don't have the same weight loading as you but have been very happy. They don't make the spring packs anymore, thinking lack of interest...

Good luck with them, the thread interested me.

 

[primussucks]

isn't this their heavy duty rear spring option
CS-DFSP-03-D-HD
- 2" rear lift maintains slight rear-hight stance with Carli 3" Systems
- Softens initial spring rate at ride height
- Minimizes axle wrap/wheel hop
- Designed for those with 1,500lbs. in bed at all times
- Capable of 15" of suspension travel with factory shackle
- Fits 4.0" Axle Tube

right from the web site: https://carlisuspension.com/product...3-09-components/dodge-full-spring-packs-2003/

FWIW, I have a full spring pack on the 04 from a different company and the Carli airbags. I don't have the same weight loading as you but have been very happy. They don't make the spring packs anymore, thinking lack of interest...

Good luck with them, the thread interested me.

I'm aware of that info.
According to the rep at Carli (in his email to me)
" the Carli leaf springs in question are clearly stated to accommodate 1,500lbs over stock"

The "Over Stock" part is what is interesting to me. It's not articulated that way on the website.