Help: Carli/Deaver Rear Springs 06 Ram

[eyemgh]

I'm aware of that info.
According to the rep at Carli (in his email to me)
" the Carli leaf springs in question are clearly stated to accommodate 1,500lbs over stock"

The "Over Stock" part is what is interesting to me. It's not articulated that way on the website.

All they mean is versus a stock bed with nothing in it and stock leaf springs.

Why anyone picked that spring, when in the very best unloaded scenario you'd be 600 lbs. over that is beyond me. You'll be 1000 lbs. over when wet.

I'll be carrying a popup on a flatbed that's 500 lbs. less than yours dry. I called Carli, CJC, and High Country 4X4, all multiple times, figuring out the minutiae of my build. Everyone recommended the XHD. The HD version never entered the discussion.

I was also told by everyone not to get the Carli sway bar if I was carrying a fulltime camper. Most said don't change the radius arms. Again, it's a Ford, but I got very consistent advise, from multiple sources. It's odd how much yours conflicts.

If it's any consolation, I'm not a Primus fan either.

 

[eyemgh]

Well, I just got my Pintops and Deaver XHDs put on. I can tell you this is doesn't sit even close to right without the load. The back is so high that you can see the bump stops. It drives like a harsh sports car. That's all in line with what I expected and should all tone down after I drop a ton on the back of it.

 

[primussucks]

I thought i'd report back, since a few folks were interested.
.
Carli has chosen to take the path of pointing fingers and insisting that until we provide email proof and phone call logs that they have zero interest on coming to a amicable resolution.

Instead, they have put all the blame back on me, the customer. Who provided detailed weights, measurements, and requirements to the distributor. Instead of Carli standing by the distributor and working on a resolution, they backed the bus over the distributor too, and now we are all hung out to dry. Pointing fingers at me and the disty for buying and installing the wrong product, they recommend and sold.

At least my installer stood up and did the right thing. He's now floating the cost of the leafs while he works with the Disty on a solution, out of his pocket, Since Carli certainly has zero interest in doing anything.

They state
"The Carli leaf springs in question are clearly stated to accommodate 1,500lbs over stock."
For reference. My Dodge (per the sticker on the b-pillar) has a stated capacity of 2,123 lbs.
"1,500 over stock" means Stock capacity (2,123) plus 1,500 lbs. = 3,623 lbs.

What Carli is saying is that by adding the HD leafs, you are actually LOWERING your truck capacity from 2,123 lbs to 1,500 lbs. A HUGE difference between "1,500 lbs over stock"

Here is how they ended the conversation.
"We’ve done all we can to try to get to the bottom of this to no avail and, unfortunately, have no further direction to take this; thus, this will be my final email. Sorry we couldn’t be of further assistance. TTS reached out yesterday to see what they can do to help."

A simple resolution would have simply been
"Sorry for the misunderstanding. Clearly there was a miscommunication in how our products are intended to perform. Please go ahead and remove them from your truck and return them for a refund".

Just be aware of the companies you deal with, no matter how 'reputable' they appear to be.

Good luck out there and stay safe.

 

[primussucks]

Well, I just got my Pintops and Deaver XHDs put on. I can tell you this is doesn't sit even close to right without the load. The back is so high that you can see the bump stops. It drives like a harsh sports car. That's all in line with what I expected and should all tone down after I drop a ton on the back of it.

prior to putting the camper back on.. the ride height was just ask you described with the HD leafs. bed sat up much higher (we have the measurements before and after).

As soon as i dropped the camper on, the suspension sank like the titanic. about 2+" more sag than stock springs. The stock springs + air bags (at 50 psi) provided more clearance than the HD Carli springs.

 

[eyemgh]

What a huge bummer! Hopefully you get it functional. Good luck!

 

[Regcabguy]

Airbags at 65psi are like hard bumpstops. Zero compression. I agree with keeping the stock swaybar if you're carrying a camper.

 

[iceaxe1967]

prior to putting the camper back on.. the ride height was just ask you described with the HD leafs. bed sat up much higher (we have the measurements before and after).

As soon as i dropped the camper on, the suspension sank like the titanic. about 2+" more sag than stock springs. The stock springs + air bags (at 50 psi) provided more clearance than the HD Carli springs.

What is your Gross vehicle weight rating. What you posted for payload capacity, the Alaskan gives less than 200lbs, that can be another person or gear. I bought a 2002 just for the 3000lbs payload because I was planning on the Alaskan also. My Gross vehicle weight rating is 8800lbs.

 

[ramblinChet]

What an absolute waste of time, energy, and money. Whoever your "trusted advisor" is, fire him.

People on this forum somehow believe they have become suspension engineers after lifting their first truck, driving it, and proudly proclaiming "it feels good!" Yeah, that's how the OEM suspension engineers design springs, shocks, brackets, bushings, steering linkage, etc. Throw a gaggle of parts together from different companies who individually have virtually zero ability to engineer their way out of a wet paper bag - but they sure have snazzy names and everyone loves them!

OEM companies have spent tens-of-millions of dollars engineering and testing very complex and entirely capable suspension systems for every imaginable situation. The very reason AEV utilizes OEM springs front and rear is because they are dozens of springs and several hundred combinations available. Do you actually think a company who offers one or two springs for the front, and one, sometimes two for the rear, is able to deliver the same safety and performance requirements? Really???

Here is my detailed solution:

1) estimate how much cargo you will be hauling (this includes humans, animals, water, food, fuel, campers, clothes, spare tires, etc.)
2) take your estimated number and multiply it by two (if your estimate was 2,000 lbs. your new number should be 4,000 lbs.)
3) locate a vehicle with a cargo capacity that is approximately the same as your new number (in this case a vehicle with a cargo capacity of 4k)

If you do the abovementioned, your suspension, brakes, tires, etc. will be perfectly fine and your vehicle will handle as designed. If you want to play suspension engineer because you have a "trusted advisor" then I wish you the best of luck. If your truck is not capable of handling the load you have two choices, reduce the load or purchase a new truck. Engineering your own suspension system is not an option. It's foolish, irresponisble and reckless to even consider attempting to do so.

 

[eyemgh]

What an absolute waste of time, energy, and money. Whoever your "trusted advisor" is, fire him.

People on this forum somehow believe they have become suspension engineers after lifting their first truck, driving it, and proudly proclaiming "it feels good!" Yeah, that's how the OEM suspension engineers design springs, shocks, brackets, bushings, steering linkage, etc. Throw a gaggle of parts together from different companies who individually have virtually zero ability to engineer their way out of a wet paper bag - but they sure have snazzy names and everyone loves them!

OEM companies have spent tens-of-millions of dollars engineering and testing very complex and entirely capable suspension systems for every imaginable situation. The very reason AEV utilizes OEM springs front and rear is because they are dozens of springs and several hundred combinations available. Do you actually think a company who offers one or two springs for the front, and one, sometimes two for the rear, is able to deliver the same safety and performance requirements? Really???

Here is my detailed solution:

1) estimate how much cargo you will be hauling (this includes humans, animals, water, food, fuel, campers, clothes, spare tires, etc.)
2) take your estimated number and multiply it by two (if your estimate was 2,000 lbs. your new number should be 4,000 lbs.)
3) locate a vehicle with a cargo capacity that is approximately the same as your new number (in this case a vehicle with a cargo capacity of 4k)

If you do the abovementioned, your suspension, brakes, tires, etc. will be perfectly fine and your vehicle will handle as designed. If you want to play suspension engineer because you have a "trusted advisor" then I wish you the best of luck. If your truck is not capable of handling the load you have two choices, reduce the load or purchase a new truck. Engineering your own suspension system is not an option. It's foolish, irresponisble and reckless to even consider attempting to do so.

That’s pretty dogmatic without any evidence to back it up, other than the self affirming notion that your truck is “right.”

 

[Regcabguy]

What an absolute waste of time, energy, and money. Whoever your "trusted advisor" is, fire him.

People on this forum somehow believe they have become suspension engineers after lifting their first truck, driving it, and proudly proclaiming "it feels good!" Yeah, that's how the OEM suspension engineers design springs, shocks, brackets, bushings, steering linkage, etc. Throw a gaggle of parts together from different companies who individually have virtually zero ability to engineer their way out of a wet paper bag - but they sure have snazzy names and everyone loves them!

OEM companies have spent tens-of-millions of dollars engineering and testing very complex and entirely capable suspension systems for every imaginable situation. The very reason AEV utilizes OEM springs front and rear is because they are dozens of springs and several hundred combinations available. Do you actually think a company who offers one or two springs for the front, and one, sometimes two for the rear, is able to deliver the same safety and performance requirements? Really???

Here is my detailed solution:

1) estimate how much cargo you will be hauling (this includes humans, animals, water, food, fuel, campers, clothes, spare tires, etc.)
2) take your estimated number and multiply it by two (if your estimate was 2,000 lbs. your new number should be 4,000 lbs.)
3) locate a vehicle with a cargo capacity that is approximately the same as your new number (in this case a vehicle with a cargo capacity of 4k)

If you do the abovementioned, your suspension, brakes, tires, etc. will be perfectly fine and your vehicle will handle as designed. If you want to play suspension engineer because you have a "trusted advisor" then I wish you the best of luck. If your truck is not capable of handling the load you have two choices, reduce the load or purchase a new truck. Engineering your own suspension system is not an option. It's foolish, irresponisble and reckless to even consider attempting to do so.

The shop I use removes AEV suspension components and replaces them with Thuren and Carli systems pretty frequently. The owners are universally very pleased. On my 2007 Ram 2500 4wd I had every intention of leaving it stock. Unfortunately, mounting my 2200# wet Northstar camper completely overwhelmed the "engineered Ram suspension". I now have Kore front coils,King shocks and Carli long travel airbags. My wife is no Amazon and could easily compress the stock shocks. The load was well within the payload capacity of Ram's specifications for a standard cab 2500 5.9 Cummins with rear leafs. It would have nice to just drive it out of the box but it was under engineered for my load.

 

[ramblinChet]

The shop I use removes AEV suspension components and replaces them with Thuren and Carli systems pretty frequently.

Hmmm...I guess GMC will soon be replacing their components on their new 2023 Sierra 1500 AT4X AEV Edition with Carli and Thuren components, hahaha. Just kidding

“Our customers want an uncompromising combination of on-road technology and off-road capability. Leveraging GMC’s unwavering dedication to providing premium trucks and American Expedition Vehicle’s expertise in engineering and integrating performance-driven parts and accessories, this truck provides extreme capability, technology and comfort.” said GMC Global Vice President Duncan Aldred.

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[Regcabguy]

If you are looking to remove the airbags, I would find a local heavy duty spring shop, and have them either add to the pack, or make one. I had a similar situation in my super duty. I have a flatbed and a FWC Hawk UTE, and ran air bags for a bit, until I had a failure. I went to a local spring shop that works on HD trucks, with the camper on, told them how I wanted it to sit, the amount of additional weight I may add, and they made a pack for the truck. No air bags, anymore, and the truck handles great. I would still run the sway bar in the back

I also had Accutune set up a set of Fox shocks for the axle weights as well. I am running the 2.0 Foxes as a holdover, until the 2.5's become available. This made a huge improvement on how the truck drove and handled as well.

I can't remember off the top of my head who makes the springs for Carli (maybe Deaver?), but sometimes it's better to go to a place in person, so the pack gets built correctly the first time.

How did Accutune work out? I had Thuren's 3" soft ride coils for a short time. They proved to be way to soft for my Ram diesel w/2200# wet Northstar. So Don revalved the shocks hoping handling safe handling would return. Nope. Don probably revalved them for Stage 5. Joe at NTG had some used Kore's he put on and it's way to stiff. The Kings need softening up.

 

[Regcabguy]

Hmmm...I guess GMC will soon be replacing their components on their new 2023 Sierra 1500 AT4X AEV Edition with Carli and Thuren components, hahaha. Just kidding

“Our customers want an uncompromising combination of on-road technology and off-road capability. Leveraging GMC’s unwavering dedication to providing premium trucks and American Expedition Vehicle’s expertise in engineering and integrating performance-driven parts and accessories, this truck provides extreme capability, technology and comfort.” said GMC Global Vice President Duncan Aldred.

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You spent a buttload of money on that suspension. Enjoy.

 

[ramblinChet]

You spent a buttload of money on that suspension. Enjoy.

Actually, the price is entirely reasonable when you consider it is the only suspension system designed, engineered, and produced to OEM standards. And when we consider the safety and responsibility associated with vehicle modification, the few extra bucks are chump change.

 

[eyemgh]

Actually, the price is entirely reasonable when you consider it is the only suspension system designed, engineered, and produced to OEM standards. And when we consider the safety and responsibility associated with vehicle modification, the few extra bucks are chump change.

Respectfully, I'm underwhelmed with this justification. Essentially they pay to play. Just because others don't doesn't mean they aren't as good or better than OEM. The thing the OEM argument leaves out is that every single OEM piece has pricing pressure. They can't simply put "the best" part everywhere, or the overall price would be prohibitive for most, and thus at odds with their price/sales projections. Each part is not the best per se, but the best it can be while still remaining in budget. If the OEM stuff, AEV or otherwise, was so great, it would be used in competition where budget is far less of a concern.