Help me decide: 5th Gen 4Runner vs FJ80/LX450 for a family of 5

[hayde89]

Hmmm nope your $5k 80 will still be that... a $5k 80. No matter how much money you throw at the vehicle that is all it will ever be. You could argue that it will appreciate because a clean 80 will be harder to find as they age but that also includes finding the right buyer who cares which is a small niche. So bringing depreciation up is the Achilles heel on any arguement. Especially when you have are talking about moddifying a vehicle. Also the point being no matter how much maintence you do on the vehicle it will never meet today’s standard of safety and it’ll be still ride like a 20 year old vehicle. So nice try. If you think throwing $40k at a 20 plus year old vehicle is a smart move the good luck and have fun with that. Also I didn’t ignore any of your points they were read and digested but it still does not move the ideals that Toyota can throw the Land Cruiser name on any vehicle they deem worthy or that they feel will sell. That’s where the 4Runner, GX, and Prado comes in as the perfect example. Yes, the 200 is built heavier duty to an extent. I have never argued that it wasn’t a excellent vehicle. I currently drive a 100 and plan to pick up a 200 in the next few years because I enjoy the refinement over the 4Runner. They tick all the boxes for me. But this thread isn’t about a 200 vs 5th gen. It’s about whether the OP should purchase a black whole 80 and try get it running for his ideal exploring and driving or purchase a warrentied 5th gen 4Runner which will be safer and a better ride out of th god m. If you read up a couple posts i actually suggested a newer but still used 100, GX, or 4Runner over both the suggested vehicles.

 

[JohnnyOshow22]

Hayde89 you are incredibly dense if you think that an 80 with 40k thrown at it, is worth 5k... That might be one of the dumbest comments on any forum I have ever been on.

To the OP... Having driven every vehicle brought up in this thread besides a Prado I will say I would take an 80 for heavier offroading and a 100 series for more of the overlanding type stuff. A 5th gen is a tool that will get the job done most of the time and for your needs it sounds fine but there are better options like the 100 series.

 

[Dalko43]

Childish.

Ttfjc is a thirteen year old who’s mom deleted Facebook and sim city off his iPad

Anybody engaging him is gullible

I think we are all better off by just leaving the little kid alone. It's obvious he knows more than we do: LC's are true 4x4's while 4runners are mere 'minivan's.' This is obviously a fact and anyone who disagrees is simply lacking in experience....

Find a triple locked 80 throw a bunch of money at it in the beginning baselining everything and then smile as you go everywhere in comfort with more capability than any 5th gen.

You cannot compare a 5th gen to an 80. Apples to oranges. Built for entirely different markets. The 80 was built to run all over the globe and 5th gens are just the American market. That should tell you everything you need to know.

The 5th gen will be slightly more comfortable and once built the gas mileage will still be crap

The FJ 80 is lucky to get 13mpg combined in stock form. The 4runner will get 17mpg combined; it'll still get 15mpg combined when moderately built. There is a mpg advantage with the 4runner's v6, however slight.

As for the comparison between the two, I think it is absolutely warranted. They are definitely vehicles built for a similar purpose. The FJ does have the solid front axle, but I don't think the lack of such precludes the 4runner from being a serious offroader (go look at the newer LC 100's and 200's if you disagree). 4runners are not limited to the American market; the LC Prado and FJ Cruiser (both built from the same platform as the 4runner) are sold globally. The 4runner is just as much an international platform as is the FJ 80 and its successors. And it has been used globally by many an overlander.

The OP has every reason to consider the 4runner for his trips. The FJ 80 is a venerable platform as well, but it is 20 years old; I don't care how well it was built from the factory, a 20 year old vehicle is going to require more maintenance and care than a brand new vehicle. The FJ 80 is a great vehicle, but the hype which surrounds it sometimes gets a little out of hand.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

sure they made it but i don't think your wife would be happy with the results. Those are also professional drives in someone else's cars. Taking the kids and wife in a 40K built 80 series is going to be a much better experience then a 40K stock 4R you drove off the lot at the dealership.

You know, I think these things are far more capable off the lot than many (especially in the Cruiser crowd) give them credit for. From the article I posted:

"If you want to run the Rubicon, you can expect damage. It's a given and we all know it. Heck, we saw a number of broken rigs on this trip, and we've damaged our modified project rigs and personal vehicles on the Rubicon. Interestingly, the stock 4Runners fared very well. At no time did they suffer driveline damage or systems failure. Body damage was very light. We inspected the rigs and found what we expected: toasted mud flaps, wrinkled skidplates, and dented mufflers. This was all predictable, especially considering these rigs were stock height. Yep, we were impressed by the new 4Runner Trail."

My wife would not be unhappy; in fact, she'd be amazed!

You can "sure, but..." their results all you want as if that somehow supports your completely ridiculous assertion that 5th Gen 4Rs are glorified minivans. Cruisers are the sturdiest built vehicles ever--yeah, everyone gets that. But do you need that? If a stock 4R can run the Rubicon with only light, cosmetic damage, I would venture to say that it's more than enough truck for the vast majority of us. Will it crawl rocks the way a modded TLC can? No, but I also don't want to crawl difficult or dangerous rocks with my family in the truck with me.

Last thing I'll say: again, that's one heck of a minivan!

 

[hayde89]

Dense for understanding basic depreciation? MODs do not add value. This is with any vehicle not just reserved for someone who thinks throwing 40k at a 20+ year vehicle no matter how awesome it is would be a smart move. The 80 is great and can be purpose built but you are throwing money in to a black hole. That goes for any vehicle!

 

[Smileyshaun]

 

[bkg]

Sure they share similarities with the Prado but the Prado is the "light duty" land cruiser and in different markets they come with completely different drive trains, diesel, turbo diesel, manual and so on. The differences are enough that you can't just slap an LC badge on the 4r here. Take any 4r and place it next to an LC (US Spec not some Prado) of the same year and crawl underneath and you'll start to see why the LC is so much more $$$ than a 4R. Gear driven Transfercase not a chain driven, the exhaust is made out of a thicker steel, the control arms are massive compared to a 4r's, 9.5" rear diff with full floaters not an 8" with semifloat, a metal gas tank skid up until the 200 series, thicker glass, the frame is thicker... I mean the list goes on and on.

Not saying a 4runner can't do what a LC does but the LC will last longer given the same punishment

But some of that is simply incorrect.

 

[ttfjc]

 

[Dalko43]

Dense for understanding basic depreciation? MODs do not add value. This is with any vehicle not just reserved for someone who thinks throwing 40k at a 20+ year vehicle no matter how awesome it is would be a smart move. The 80 is great and can be purpose built but you are throwing money in to a black hole. That goes for any vehicle!

I agree with the caveat that if you put an updated engine into a platform like the LC 80 (something like the newer 4.7l Toyota v8 or the 2.8l Cummins crate engine), and assuming that the swap was done correctly, I could see the vehicle's value going up somewhat.

I don't think you'd necessarily recoup the full cost of the engine swap in any resale, but I definitely think a LC 80 with a newer engine is going to fetch more than one with a tired 4.5l inline 6.

 

[hayde89]

I agree with the caveat that if you put an updated engine into a platform like the LC 80 (something like the newer 4.7l Toyota v8 or the 2.8l Cummins crate engine), and assuming that the swap was done correctly, I could see the vehicle's value going up somewhat.

I don't think you'd necessarily recoup the full cost of the engine swap in any resale, but I definitely think a LC 80 with a newer engine is going to fetch more than one with a tired 4.5l inline 6.

Agreed maybe you could recoup something. But it would be cents on the dollar. If you were planning to keep the vehicle till the wheels fell off then it wouldn't matter and I would say go for it because the investment is in something that you value but I see many times people trying to sell these things with mods such as an engine swap and the value just isn't realistic on the market. If you had to get an 80 at least in my mind I would go for a BJ80 imported. But even then that is between 18k-25k for such an old vehicle.

 

[MTSN]

This is a weird thread.

To the OP - if safety and reliability are at the top of the priority list, don't go with an 80. Legendary as they are, the newest one is over 20 years old and predates virtually every modern safety feature other than basic airbags and ABS. I don't have kids, but I care about me and my wife's safety and appreciate the stuff that comes with modern platforms.

You didn't mention budget, but it's fair to say you'd be ok with spending around $40k since you're looking at a potentially new 5th gen. Here are my recommendations for a low $40k budget in this order

- used 200 series with AT tires and sliders as new as possible to get as much safety tech as possible (really increased up in 13 with radar cruise and pre-collision)
- 03+ 100 series with a nice bit of money left over for all kinds of mods
- 5th gen with AT tires and sliders

Any one of those trucks will be very reliable and competent. Ignore people who call a 4runner a minivan - it's absurd drivel. I've been to Moab twice already this year and wheeled with stock 3rd gen 4runners to brand new 200s and everything in between, and the only thing that really mattered was the person behind the wheel. Ironically the only guy who had any trouble at all was in a built FJC, but in reality the issues he had were only because he wasn't a good driver and wasn't listening to instruction. I led Hells Revenge from Cruise Moab, and nobody had any troubles including a woman who was in a pristine 3rd gen 4runner with no mods except a heavy ARB front bumper and removed running boards (didn't even have sliders). She and everyone else in the convoy made it through the trail unscathed because they were good drivers and took advice/spotting when necessary.

 

[MaverickTRD]

I saw Apollo the other day and man I can say that sure is one sweet minivan. I wonder what they would drive if they were spending their own money. Look at real deal people who aren't selling maxtrax and what do they use? pretty sure that T4R is not very high on the list.

Lets look at those crazy SOBs in Australia. What do they drive? Land Cruisers, pretty sure they are a bit past the beating the snot as far as beating their rigs. Whats that? They don't sell T4Rs in Australia? Hmm... wonder why. Same with those crazy Russians.

let me paint you a picture: Lets say you you dump 40K into a brand new 5Gen or an 80 series.

You drive the 5G off the lot. its going to be fine for most people. Probably fine for the first service roads most will see. its going to be pretty plush and a lot more comfortable. you get a warranty. that's important to some people.

You look for a year to find the right triple locked rust free candidate for your build. Once you find it you rebuild or service everything replace whats needed etc. Lift sliders tire carriers, re-gear etc. Get to that 40K price tag pretty quick. Probably more. You now have spent a lot of time and effort but what you built is your own and maybe you learned a thing or two about your rig. But your 80 series is going to eat up anything you can throw at it, and do it class. You can do the Rubicon on 33s on a 3x80 and OME lift without to much effort. Try doing that in your minivan off the lot. But guess what, this ain't no take it into the dealership for oil changes kinda car. and its not going to be as plush. They could use a couple more cup holders. And banks aren't going to finance your 25 year old 80 series.

But, the 80 series is a globally known platform. A real land cruiser. For when not making it back is not an option.

So again, it sounds like "FAN BOY" mantra but thats ok. some people just dont get it.
"The 80 series is ALWAYS THE ANSWER. the real question is are you worthy?"

I feel like you're slightly delusional...The 5th gen has rear e locker available and the 4th gen does not. Almost all suspension parts are nearly interchangeable between and FJ, a 4th gen, and a 5th gen.

 

[MaverickTRD]

OP. I don't have a family of 5, but a family of 4. I have a 3rd gen 4runner, a 1st gen Sequoia and a GX470. IMO the sequoia has a very usable 3rd row. for even adults. The rear a/c available on the GX, Land cruiser, and sequoia are a godsend in the desert heat.

I wouldn't go for an 80 at this point. While i think they are great and I really like them. I've had long enough dealing with older rigs. I don't care how "stout" its built. This isn't a slight by any means.

The 5th gen 4runner is really nice, but it doesn't have a true rear a/c. The GX470 and GX460 are virtually the same dimensions inside and out. The 3rd row is very minimal. My 7 and 9 year olds don't mind being back there for a short time, but I don't know how well they would fare on a long road trip.

This brings the idea to a 100 series. It offers the v8 (which is great imo, the v6 powertrains leave a lot to be desired) the 3rd row offers more space. The wheelbase is still 4" shorter than the sequoia, and it doesn't feel so giant.

prior to 05 the sequoia had the smaller front dif, and the center lock would only stay locked in 4 low. The departure angle is not stellar as theres quite the overhang. I was going to build my sequoia to be the family wheeler/hauler/do all things rig, but I will be selling it and using the GX to fill that role. The small 3rd row will have to suffice.
I didn't go with a 100 because i wasn't a fan of torsion bar front suspension, sluggish handling, and the prices being 3-5k higher than similar equipped GX470s but with miles usually at 200k+ vs 130-150k
My wife really likes the handling/feel of the GX. Its big enough, but doesn't feel like a boat.

 

[Dalko43]

I feel like you're slightly delusional...The 5th gen has rear e locker available and the 4th gen does not. Almost all suspension parts are nearly interchangeable between and FJ, a 4th gen, and a 5th gen.

Technically, the 4th gen Trail Edition did come with a rear e-locker, but they were far less common compared to the 5th gen Trail's and TRD's.

Otherwise, I agree with what you're saying in the above post.

 

[Osprey!]

Unless your kids magically stay the same size, just suck it up and get a 4x4 domestic van. As they grow, you'll be much happier in the long run. I can easily fill my 4runner for a weekend trip for 2 adults. Hard to imagine how we'd ever pack it in there if we had 5 people.