HELP ME DECIDE!!! Newbie needs advice

[hove102]

Apparently you didn't find the forums at Planetisuzoo.com

Troopers are one of the best bargains out there, and you can lift and fit 33s with very little effort. Let me know if you have any questions.

I did end up finding them...the first time I saw them, I just didn't dig hard enough to find the info I was actually looking for. From what I've seen, they seem to be a pretty good low-budget 4WD, and I've seen a lot of Holden Jackaroos in Oz that look pretty rad. Am I right in thinking that I should be looking for a 1995 with the manual trans and the SOHC 3.2? From what I've read that seems to be everyone's favourite year.

i'd go with a toyota tacoma or 4runner
the 80 series LC is going to be on the high side of the LC high miles (read a LOT of miles) or completely crapped out at that price point
my 2 cents

Thanks! You do have a point about the 80-Series' being pretty clapped out. Most of them are 1991-92s, which I know are undesirable because they don't have the 1FZ motor. That's kinda why I'm trying not to get too stoked on getting one.

 

[jlocster]

Went through the same search a year and a half ago with similar criteria to yours.

I voted against these:
Trooper-weak link GM 4L30 auto trans, oil burning due to faulty piston design
Bronco/Blazer/Suburban/Ram Charger/Cherokee/Wagoneer-cheap and plentiful, mechanically reliable, horrifying mpg
Land Cruiser (60/80 series)-$$$ to purchase, mechanically reliable, horrifying mpg
Pathfinder (R50)-powerful engine, poor mpg, unibody construction
4Runner-$$$ to purchase, affordable ones have 3.0 V6 head gasket issues
Tacoma-$$$ to purchase

I voted for these:
Chevy Tracker/Suzuki Vitara-mechanically reliable, small form factor, 4cyl/manual/4wd=20+ mpg
Montero-hard to find, scarce aftermarket, mechanically reliable, full size, 16/20 mpg city/highway
Montero Sport-super plentiful and cheap in So Cal, scarce aftermarket, mechanically reliable (same drivetrain as full size), 16/20 mpg

I think a Montero Sport offers tremendous bang for the buck with little downside. They are dime a dozen in So Cal right now. Sports have a small but healthy community. ---> link

That said, I went with a full size Montero because they are a true "world vehicle"(sold on every continent), and I wanted the extra size. I've been very happy.

My 2 cents...

Good luck!

 

[hove102]

Went through the same search a year and a half ago with similar criteria to yours.

I voted against these:
Trooper-weak link GM 4L30 auto trans, oil burning due to faulty piston design
Bronco/Blazer/Suburban/Ram Charger/Cherokee/Wagoneer-cheap and plentiful, mechanically reliable, horrifying mpg
Land Cruiser (60/80 series)-$$$ to purchase, mechanically reliable, horrifying mpg
Pathfinder (R50)-powerful engine, poor mpg, unibody construction
4Runner-$$$ to purchase, affordable ones have 3.0 V6 head gasket issues
Tacoma-$$$ to purchase

I voted for these:
Chevy Tracker/Suzuki Vitara-mechanically reliable, small form factor, 4cyl/manual/4wd=20+ mpg
Montero-hard to find, scarce aftermarket, mechanically reliable, full size, 16/20 mpg city/highway
Montero Sport-super plentiful and cheap in So Cal, scarce aftermarket, mechanically reliable (same drivetrain as full size), 16/20 mpg

I think a Montero Sport offers tremendous bang for the buck with little downside. They are dime a dozen in So Cal right now. Sports have a small but healthy community. ---> link

That said, I went with a full size Montero because they are a true "world vehicle"(sold on every continent), and I wanted the extra size. I've been very happy.

My 2 cents...

Good luck!

Thanks Jloc! Thumbs up for you for being so thorough. I've been doing a lot of reading on this forum and many others and those seem to be the things that keep appearing in the threads I read. I'm like you seem to have been, looking for something capable that won't break down when looked at funny and get half-decent mileage. My only question for you is how are you finding sourcing replacement parts for the Montero? Someone advised me that it might be hard to find OEM or even aftermarket parts for them in the States, since they're not produced anymore. I'd love to find a full-size Montero, mainly because I love the look and I know they're pretty bulletproof, as well as not needing a lot of work to fit large tires, but a Sport might win based on price.

That being said, I still have to drive the 4WDs I'm seriously considering before I rule any of them out completely...driving impressions can do a lot.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I actually read part of your build thread before and totally forgot I'd seen your username somewhere before. Definitely going to go back and read the whole thing now.

 

[jlocster]

Mechanical parts are easy to find, OEM or aftermarket...no problem there at all. Things like armor, bumpers, roof-racks, snorkels, etc are harder to find though there are available solutions...ordering from overseas, tweaking parts from other vehicles to fit, etc. Body parts and trim pieces are available readily in wrecking yards...of which luckily there are quite a few in So Cal. Dealer carries quite a bit in this regard as well...much can also be found on eBay.

I've put about 40k miles on mine in less than 2 years driving to some very far off places. After baselining the mechanicals, it's proven a very sturdy, capable, comfortable and reliable vehicle.

 

[NCtrail4R]

I've owned a Trooper and an R50 Pathfinder. Both were great, reliable trucks, but lack aftermarket support. Between the 2 I'd go for the Trooper because of the size and the fact that they are easy to get a mild lift and fit 265/75s easily. I had a 96 Trooper and had no transmission trouble, but I understand that later models had more issues, so need to confirm the years the new transmission was used.

If price were a little less of an issue, I'd say to go with a 4runner, but it's tough to find good deals on them. Capable, reliable and tons of aftermarket support if you can find a deal on one.

Someone mentioned a Suzuki Vitara and I'd second that they're certainly worth looking at. Haven't owned one, but a local guy has a build that is plenty capable for light trails and overlanding (though a little tight on space), decent gas mileage and has proven to be reliable with affordable parts available. Looking closely at them as a first car for my daughter.

Look forward to see what you decide on!

 

[BigSwede]

From what I've seen, they seem to be a pretty good low-budget 4WD, and I've seen a lot of Holden Jackaroos in Oz that look pretty rad. Am I right in thinking that I should be looking for a 1995 with the manual trans and the SOHC 3.2? From what I've read that seems to be everyone's favourite year.

Any of the the 92-97 Troopers with a manual transmissions are reliable rigs. The 3.2L doesn't have the oil burning issues of the 3.5L. Either the 175 hp SOHC or 190 hp DOHC are fine, they are basically the same motor with different heads and intakes. The SOHC can have hydraulic lifter tick but that is not a problem, just annoying to some. 95+ gets you the wider track suspension, and air bags with the newer interior. 96-97 gets you OBD II and 190 hp for the SOHC (no DOHC in 96-97).

 

[hove102]

Any of the the 92-97 Troopers with a manual transmissions are reliable rigs. The 3.2L doesn't have the oil burning issues of the 3.5L. Either the 175 hp SOHC or 190 hp DOHC are fine, they are basically the same motor with different heads and intakes. The SOHC can have hydraulic lifter tick but that is not a problem, just annoying to some. 95+ gets you the wider track suspension, and air bags with the newer interior. 96-97 gets you OBD II and 190 hp for the SOHC (no DOHC in 96-97).

Thanks for the info! I've heard that the 3.2 is the motor to go for; are there any reliability issues in choosing the DOHC over the single-cam motor? Also, I've heard mixed opinions on OBD II, with some saying it's a massive pain and others saying it's really not all bad. What are your thoughts?

 

[Arclight]

I'd look at:

Mitusbishi Montero
Ford Ranger Pickup
Suzuki Samurai
Nissan Frontier
Jeep XJ/ZJ

In Southern California, I would forget about anything Toyota and 4WD in that price range. Tacomas and 4Runners command a huge premium here for whatever reason. I'm sure they do everywhere, but it's especially bad in SoCal. For $3K, you really need to be looking at the second-tier brands that everyone forgets about.

One thing: Tell us more what you're looking to do with it. Desert trails? National Parks? Fire Roads? Rockcrawling championships? Most 4WD trips around here start with a 1-6 hour drive on the highway, so mileage and some comfort can be important.

Arclight

 

[BigSwede]

Thanks for the info! I've heard that the 3.2 is the motor to go for; are there any reliability issues in choosing the DOHC over the single-cam motor? Also, I've heard mixed opinions on OBD II, with some saying it's a massive pain and others saying it's really not all bad. What are your thoughts?

Yeah some people like the diagnostic capability of OBD II, but for me, the codes have rarely helped me fix anything. I like the simplicity of OBD I...and one cat, one O2 sensor, etc. The 95 is a bit of a sweet spot where you get the wider track, air bags and nicer interior, and OBD I. But really I wouldn't let all that keep you from getting a nice rust-free Trooper from one of the other years. BTW it's not too difficult to retrofit the wider track to a 92-94 Trooper...4 parts per side up front (upper control arms, tie rods, lower ball joints, and CV axles).

The DOHC has a bit more power but 15 hp isn't worth stressing over. No difference in reliability.

 

[hove102]

I'd look at:

Mitusbishi Montero
Ford Ranger Pickup
Suzuki Samurai
Nissan Frontier
Jeep XJ/ZJ

In Southern California, I would forget about anything Toyota and 4WD in that price range. Tacomas and 4Runners command a huge premium here for whatever reason. I'm sure they do everywhere, but it's especially bad in SoCal. For $3K, you really need to be looking at the second-tier brands that everyone forgets about.

One thing: Tell us more what you're looking to do with it. Desert trails? National Parks? Fire Roads? Rockcrawling championships? Most 4WD trips around here start with a 1-6 hour drive on the highway, so mileage and some comfort can be important.

Arclight

You bring up some good points! What I'm looking to do with it is the first 3 things you said: desert trails, national parks, fire roads, and hopefully on-road road trips at some point. I don't need a rock buggy or anything that extreme...that requires more time and money than I want to spend, and rock-hopping really isn't my cup of tea anyway. Things like the Mojave Road, trails in Ocotillo and Anza-Borrego, and fire roads are what interest me. It'd be cool to do overnight camping trips too, so something I can sleep in or carry a tent & camping gear in would be good. Based on that, I think a Samurai might be a tad too small. Frontiers, though cool, are too new to be in my price range. I want to be able to haul my friends (and my bike, and my drums, though not at the same time) around, since I am still a college student, so that's why the mid-size and up SUVs appeal to me.

You are dead-on about Toyotas being waaaayyy overpriced in Southern California, as well. It is really odd, but it seems like all the half-decent 4Runners, especially ones with the 5-speed, start at $2500 and go up from there. I think it's because Toyotas have some kind of weird appeal to SoCal people, and because they know what they have. At this point, I've kinda had to write off Toyotas for now because nothing I see is jumping out at me, and what does appeal to me is too expensive.

Right now, I've got Monteros and Troopers on the brain, so that's what I'm looking at. ZJs are my backup, but I've heard some iffy things about their transmissions and electrical systems.

 

[hove102]

Yeah some people like the diagnostic capability of OBD II, but for me, the codes have rarely helped me fix anything. I like the simplicity of OBD I...and one cat, one O2 sensor, etc. The 95 is a bit of a sweet spot where you get the wider track, air bags and nicer interior, and OBD I. But really I wouldn't let all that keep you from getting a nice rust-free Trooper from one of the other years. BTW it's not too difficult to retrofit the wider track to a 92-94 Trooper...4 parts per side up front (upper control arms, tie rods, lower ball joints, and CV axles).

The DOHC has a bit more power but 15 hp isn't worth stressing over. No difference in reliability.

Thanks again! If I end up with a trooper I'm coming to you for advice for sure. If I'm converting an early 2nd Gen to the wide-track, what do I do to the rear end? Wheel spacers or a complete rear axle out of a 95-on?

 

[AFBronco235]

I still think you'd be better off in either an older ford pickup with a camper shell on the bed, or a bronco. The 4X4 versions are trail ready for what you want to do. No modifications needed. You may have to do some work to get it reliable after over 18 years of abuse, but otherwise, they'd be a solid rig you can just hop in and go. They're dirt cheap too.

 

[Arclight]

I still think you'd be better off in either an older ford pickup with a camper shell on the bed, or a bronco. The 4X4 versions are trail ready for what you want to do. No modifications needed. You may have to do some work to get it reliable after over 18 years of abuse, but otherwise, they'd be a solid rig you can just hop in and go. They're dirt cheap too.

I think Broncos and full-size 4x4 pickups are a good value for the money as well. I sold my 78 Ford Bronco last year. It took me quite a while, and I only got $1800 for it. That thing was amazing offroad - Dana 44 up front, Ford 9" rear, 400cid V8, very low range first gear. It would go pretty much anywhere. The main drawbacks were gas mileage (about 10mpg uphill, downhill, on-road, off-road) and being a bit noisy on the hghway.

One thing to look for in any vehicle older than about 1992: Make sure the smog gear hasn't been "fixed" by some Bubba with a sawzall. This means:

1. Catalytic converter and O2 sensor present if so equipped
2. No mystery wires going to aftermarket "delete" boxes, and no obvious plugged-off vacuum ports
3. No headers (yes, there are CARB-legal headers. But the people who are into headers in CA usually don't bother)
4. No aftermarket carbs (if carburated) or intakes, unless all the CARB paperwork is present.

On a newer (1996+) OBD II car, you can bring along a hand-held scanner and pop it on for a quick check when you look at a car.

If any of this is amiss, I would knock a $3K offer down to more like $750. That sounds rough and is going to piss off whoever spent money "improving" their truck, but the reality is that you're going to have to spend more money and time undoing it. A truck you can't register here is pretty much worth scrap.

In any case, you want a pickup or SUV that hardly left the pavement if possible, and mods are a bad sign as far as that goes.

Arclight

 

[BigSwede]

Thanks again! If I end up with a trooper I'm coming to you for advice for sure. If I'm converting an early 2nd Gen to the wide-track, what do I do to the rear end? Wheel spacers or a complete rear axle out of a 95-on?

Yep, either will work. I did the wide-track conversion my previous Trooper which was a 93, and ran spacers on the rear axle. If you source an axle to swap you will need a 95-97 for the right gear ratio.

Here is my 95:

 

[hove102]

Thanks again for all the help guys! I think this is one of those cases where it's better to have more information than less, and I want to thank you for actually helping me out and giving me a lot to consider.

AFB, you make a really good point about the Broncos. I've been searching for them on and off and it's really hard to find them in SoCal with anything less than the 302; most are 351s from what I can see. If I found a good one and the price was right, I'd definitely consider it. The fuel mileage is the only thing that worries me (and I know I probably sound like a broken record about that). Other than that, it's hard for me not to consider the Bronco as an alternative.

Arclight, did your Bronco have a stick or an auto? Based on the way you described it, it sounds like a stick, but I just want to be clear. I think if I were to look at Broncos I'd probably go after one from the 90s since those seem to be in better shape and have less miles. You are right about being wary of trucks with mods. When I first started this search, I really hadn't considered that a truck with mods is likely to have been abused a bit more than one that is stock, and there's no way to know the quality of the install either. Good point about the smog gear too. Getting anything smogged is a massive PITA in California; I don't need to make it any harder than it has to be.

BigSwede, thanks again for all the help! Your Trooper looks ************. :drool: