Help me understand this

[ratkin]

Here’s a link to a GMRS repeater directory that gets updated every week: https://mygmrs.com

A repeater is a specialized radio owned/maintained by someone else that you receive permission to use that allows you to extend your signal range over distance/terrain.

Hope this helps!

 

[Billoftt]

Remember, CBs are an affront to God and should never be used for off road vehicles. If you are a member of a club that uses CBs and will not budge to at least convert to GMRS, join a new club.

In a perfect world, y'all would at least get a Amateur Technician license and maybe a few of the more committed of you could get a General. I am in the middle of trying to convert a few clubs I am involved in to go to Amateur radio right now. One I am having a slow but sure success with, the "Jeep-centric" one is more hell-bent on keeping their CBs, no matter how many rides we go on where at least 30% of them have faulty equipment and half of the radio chatter is faint calls of "Can anyone hear me?"

On the group that I am having a bit of success with (coincidentally, mostly Toyotas) I got on of my local radio clubs to "test" a new instructional curriculum on people in the overland club. I got quite a few guys licensed there and once non-licensed people start seeing their friends Ham gear and what it can do and see the study guides and how it really isn't that difficult, they start doing it on their own one-by-one. One of our most recent members got his Tech Ticket on his own and then drove to the Ham Radio Online store in Atlanta a few hours away right after and bought a brand new Icom ID-5100 and a bunch of stuff to go with it.

As far as cost goes, that is like asking "How much does it cost to get into 4x4 stuff?" Well, will you be happy with an older, used 4Runner with 200,000 miles for 5 grand or do you prefer a brand new Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon for 45 grand? Identify your needs and what you are going to use it for. Do you need a rig that can do HF, VHF, UHF, SSB, CW, RTTY, FM, AM, Digital, etc... for $920 https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-011766 Do you need a high quality, reliable VHF FM radio that is reasonably priced at $127 https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-014764

The beauty of Amateur radio is that there is a HUGE selection of radios and capabilities out there to tailor to your needs whereas the GMRS market is a bit limited right now. For example, I have this Kenwood TM-V71A in my 4x4. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-008951 and I have a friend with the above mentioned Icom ID-5100. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-014084
Both radios have 2 VFOs, or 2 separate radios units inside that can transmit and listen on UHF and VHF in addition to scanning. So, one of use can be the lead vehicle and the other can be the trail vehicle and in the even that the group breaks up into 2 smaller groups or simplex comms are unreliable, he and I can both be on our simplex frequency in addition to being on a local repeater.

In addition, if someone like myself that has a General or Extra license, we could along a portable/mobile HF radio such as this https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-002216 and a buddipole antenna or a field expedient antenna kit and be able to reach the rest of the world if really, really needed.

I do want to clarify, everything that was stated regarding GMRS is true and GMRS is a good radio solution, has its place and should be considered. As a matter of fact, I intend on getting a GMRS license in the near future so I can pop a few mobiles in the family vehicle on account that literally nobody else in my entire family has any interest in getting their Tech license. Also, all of your family can operate under your GMRS license whereas with an Amateur license only you can or someone else with your direct presence and supervision.

 

[Tex68w]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, I honestly didn't expect this kind of response. It's nice to know that there's a very active part of the community here that is into radios. It sounds like I should jump in head first with this stuff as I find it kind of intriguing. I have a lot of research to do a lot to learn on this front.

Why is a license necessary, what is so dangerous about operating this stuff without one? I understand it's the law, but what are the risks involved in someone operating unlicensed, what danger do they pose that requires it to be regulated?

 

[Billoftt]

Why is a license necessary, what is so dangerous about operating this stuff without one? I understand it's the law, but what are the risks involved in someone operating unlicensed, what danger do they pose that requires it to be regulated?

Listen to a CB on channel 19 or channel 6 and you will soon understand.

 

[prerunner1982]

Why is a license necessary, what is so dangerous about operating this stuff without one? I understand it's the law, but what are the risks involved in someone operating unlicensed, what danger do they pose that requires it to be regulated?

As a licensed ham we are allowed to run 1500 watts and can operate in the microwave bands. Point either one of those at someone or have someone touch them while you transmit and it can cause some bodily harm. At least with a test and a license to show you passed the test it shows that you have or should have some knowledge of what you are doing, the technical aspect of it, and can do so safely. You can also cause interference to others and as a ham should know how to fix it, even if it's not "your" problem. We are also allowed to build our own equipment.
Now a GMRS license... well that's just pay to play and a way for the FCC to make money.

Listen to a CB on channel 19 or channel 6 and you will soon understand.

Or 14.313Mhz or 7.200Mhz, ham radio is not immune to the trash.

 

[Billoftt]

Or 14.313Mhz or 7.200Mhz, ham radio is not immune to the trash.

I really had no idea. I am licensed for more equipment than what I own and operate. I find it odd that people would invest in that kind of high-dollar stuff just to do that, but then again I have a life and pretty decent self-esteem so...

 

[prerunner1982]

I really had no idea. I am licensed for more equipment than what I own and operate. I find it odd that people would invest in that kind of high-dollar stuff just to do that, but then again I have a life and pretty decent self-esteem so...

Yeah I agree, but thankfully they pretty much keep to themselves on a couple of frequencies though they do like to interfere with DXpeditions and special event stations and such.

 

[DaveInDenver]

As a licensed ham we are allowed to run 1500 watts and can operate in the microwave bands. Point either one of those at someone or have someone touch them while you transmit and it can cause some bodily harm.

I know it's uncool to mention RF safety but that's one aspect

At least with a test and a license to show you passed the test it shows that you have or should have some knowledge of what you are doing, the technical aspect of it, and can do so safely. You can also cause interference to others and as a ham should know how to fix it, even if it's not "your" problem. We are also allowed to build our own equipment.
-snip-
Or 14.313Mhz or 7.200Mhz, ham radio is not immune to the trash.

This is the main reason for amateur licensing. We are given a lot of authority and leeway and the tests are supposed to demonstrate that you understand your responsibility. More than that having a call sign is your on air identifier to other users and the FCC so they know who to contact when another person has an issue. It might not be a ham, could be you're interfering with a neighbor's TV or a public service radio system or anything else. There's always someone responsible for transmitters. In the case of perhaps a police radio there's a responsible technician who passed a GROL test to be in charge of the radios. GROL is General Radiotelephone Operator License. He does many of the same things a ham should be doing, too.

 

[camp4x4]

Why is a license necessary, what is so dangerous about operating this stuff without one? I understand it's the law, but what are the risks involved in someone operating unlicensed, what danger do they pose that requires it to be regulated?

For ham radio I see it as similar to a driver's license or firearm license - both require a test that's easy to pass with a minimal amount of effort. The level of effort involved and the taking of the test itself is enough to at least introduce the key concepts and get people thinking about the things they need to know to safely and responsibly use the devices you're being granted access to. Yeah, you can do a lot of research and learn all this stuff, but at the very least the license jump starts that process for you.

For GMRS I see it as essentially paying for the frequencies and the infrastructure at the FCC required to certify equipment so a test isn't required.

As for what can go wrong, the reality is not much. The biggest thing is that people who have gone the legitimate route really don't take too kindly to scofflaws. On repeaters especially you won't get a warm welcome without a callsign because you're basically giving the middle finger to people who've provided a public good and only ask that you follow the rules to use it. And if you aren't gonna use repeaters, what's the point of getting a ham license? Just go GMRS and be done with it. The performance is basically identical since GMRS sits right next to some of the Amateur frequencies in UHF.

There is also the potential for getting on frequencies you REALLY shouldn't be on such as police, fire, etc. But that's primarily with the cheaper Chinese radios that aren't as locked out of those channels as the high end Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood, etc. The FCC is actually cracking down on radios that aren't locked into the Amateur frequencies. The process of getting a license will, hopefully, teach you that you should avoid these, and how to.

 

[MOguy]

When I was in the Army and moved every few years every club I went with and still go with used or uses CBs. While there are better and more capable systems a quick trip to Walmart, local truck stop, or thrift store you can be set up and ready to go in minutes and for probably $50 to $75. There is always someone in these groups that have other systems that are far "better" than CB but they never have anybody to talk to so what does it matter.

Even though CB is the least capable and doesn't have the range that the other offer it works for most groups.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The biggest thing is that people who have gone the legitimate route really don't take too kindly to scofflaws.

Some hams do get upset by it. I wish 4x4 guys would just get their license and try not to encourage unlicensed use by suggesting CB or GMRS when it's an option. Thing is I'm also part of our club's default radio support team since we taught classes and administered several tech tests to club members. So I kind of need to be an Elmer and do things right. They know it irritates me when they'll let slip foul language but since we're usually in the backcountry and they indulge me with low power and do their call signs I let it pass.

There is also the potential for getting on frequencies you REALLY shouldn't be on such as police, fire, etc. But that's primarily with the cheaper Chinese radios that aren't as locked out of those channels as the high end Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood, etc. The FCC is actually cracking down on radios that aren't locked into the Amateur frequencies. The process of getting a license will, hopefully, teach you that you should avoid these, and how to.

LOL, I have radios that came from a decommissioned police system when they went 800 MHz encrypted. They're capable of transmitting anywhere from 400 to 470 MHz, for example. And it's perfectly legal since they carry a Part 90 acceptance.

It's never been and still isn't illegal to have radios capable of transmitting beyond the ham bands as long as you don't actually do it and have a ham license. If you don't have a ham license then the FCC will in theory have a better position to punish you for intent to transmit illegally. But since the laws and rules that govern amateurs only state you as the operator must only transmit on amateur bands having a radio capable of it can only become an issue if you're actually caught in the act of causing intentional interference or operating beyond your authority.

Basically all the repeaters could not exist if it wasn't for the implicit authorization our ham license gives us to operate any kind of hardware as long as it actually is only used to transmit on ham frequencies. The clarification the FCC needs to do is that it was apparently illegal to sell them and certainly so to an unlicensed person. Whether it was really illegal to sell them to hams I think is debatable but traditionally manufacturers have accommodated the FCC by locking them to ham bands when they weren't Part 90 approved.

 

[MOguy]

Listen to a CB on channel 19 or channel 6 and you will soon understand.

There are 38 other channels to choose from and unless your adventure include large amounts of HWY travel you will rarely encounter anybody on a CB.

 

[Billoftt]

There are 38 other channels to choose from and unless your adventure include large amounts of HWY travel you will rarely encounter anybody on a CB.

I can assure you that no matter how hard you try to convince me, I will not convert from Ham radio to CB.

 

[MOguy]

I can assure you that no matter how hard you try to convince me, I will not convert from Ham radio to CB.

I am not saying get rid of your Ham.
If you could only communicate with those you are traveling with using a CB radio would you get a CB radio or just not talk with them?

If you are traveling in a group and keeping together what is wrong with using CB radios?

 

[camp4x4]

...traditionally manufacturers have accommodated the FCC by locking them to ham bands when they weren't Part 90 approved.

This is all I was really getting at. There's plenty of confusion around the Chinese radios right now and what the FCC is saying about them.