Help needed: 98 TRD & 7th, failed smog, no error codes

[bikerjosh]

Anyone with an S/C in california or another state that does smog checks, my 4runner just failed part of the smog test 25 mph was ok, but on 15mph NO (PPM) measured 847, on a max of 512. Any ideas?
Car is running URDs 7th injector, magna flow cat, muffler and a 2.2 pulley at 15mph I shouldn't be in boost so I wouldn't think that would matter.
Warmed up the car driving 15 miles to the site on the hwy w/overdirve off.
If I unplugged the 7th temp would that change anything?:
Need some advice, truck is new to me. (couldn't find the emoticon running around screaming)
thanks Josh

 

[RMP&O]

wish I could give you 1st hand experience but we don't have to do smog checks in Wyoming so I never had that done on mine.

Do you have the URD software that came with the 7th kit? When was the last time the truck was tuned? What octane fuel are you running? How are the Cats?

Sounds like you bought the truck recently already built? If so the S/C 5vz does take special care and maintenance. For one you have got to run the cooler TRD thermostat as well as special plugs. You can't just unplug the 7th. Try it and see how it runs, mine will run like crap if it is just unplugged. I think remove is a better word if you want to try to pass it without the 7th. It will run lean though under boost and may even pop a code without the 7th.

I would say start with a tune on a laptop and run the URD 7th software to see what is going on.

 

[ldivinag]

having through a yearly GROSS POLUTTER status each year with my 90 4runner, i would recommend checking your cat converter.

2 years ago, i couldnt pass after like 3 tests. everytime, i was too much HC (IIRC) on the 25mph.

i tried everything each time. oil change, new parts, etc. after like the 4rd fail, i wondered... i havent done the exhaust in a decade... doh...

swap out the cat... went back to test. passed by 2...

 

[bikerjosh]

Thanks, the cat is only 2 years old so my guess is that isn't the issue, but how can you check, the whole thing is welded on.? Could the o2 sensor be causing the problem but not showing a code, it's also the original one? Any other ideas what could causing a high Nitrous Oxide rating?

 

[RMP&O]

Thanks, the cat is only 2 years old so my guess is that isn't the issue, but how can you check, the whole thing is welded on.? Could the o2 sensor be causing the problem but not showing a code, it's also the original one? Any other ideas what could causing a high Nitrous Oxide rating?

I say again....put it on a laptop and see what is going on. If you can't do that take it Toyota and they can.

 

[bikerjosh]

oh crap, now my 4runner is really unhappy

Update>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, well things did not go as planned.
Here's an update with the stats more clearly laid out.
Stats: 1998 4runner 155k miles Originally sold out of state
3.4 w/AT, SC, URD 7th and 2.2 Pulley, headers, one cat a magnaflow and magnaflow muffler.
First 02 is a Bosch wide band thread in sensor, post cat 02 sensor is the denso with traditional 2 bolt flange.

Also of important note I have not had any CELs during this time.

Took it for a smog test. Needed a new gas cap. Passed all but one category on 15 mph test NO was higher than limit. 25 mph test was fine. (see numbers below)
Started replacing items: New plug wires, new Ik22 plugs (those were the recommended plugs and what was already in it), new PCV valve, new gas cap, new upstream O2 sensor (same one in it as above), cleaned the MAF and throttle body, changed oil/filter, ran some of that CRC guaranteed to pass snake oil through it, then filled it up with some Chevron premium got it good and warmed up took it back to smog place and ….. any guesses…? Well it was 2-3 times worse across all levels (see second numbers)

---------%CO----------%O2-------------HC (ppm)-------------CO%------------NO (ppm)----------Results
Test----meas----------meas------------max/meas---------max/meas----------max/meas
15mph--14.7-----------0.0--------------51 / 20----------.65 / .28---------512 /847--------------fail
25mph--14.8----------- 0.0--------------35/15------------.79 / .24---------765 / 697-------------pass
Test 2
15mph--13.9------------0.6--------------51 /104------------.65/ .65---------512 / 2056--------gross polluter
25mph--14.3------------0.3--------------35 / 62------------ .79/ .50---------765 /1497-------------fail


After I got done saying $%$#^**^^$##@%^&((())_&&&, and where is my Glock G17? I took a couple days off of dealing with it.

So, I’m out of state for a few days and trying to come up with my next plan.
Could a cat, crap the bed in two weeks, not throw a CEL and still cause this? The numbers have jumped 2-3 times in value. I’m at a total loss. The smog tech said the numbers look like the car doesn’t have a cat. The cat, was a 49 state cat, and if I need to replace that now, my guess is they will have to install a CARB (hate them) approved unit.

Any ideas? Thanks for your help/ideas. No I wouldn’t shoot my 4runner, I really do love it.

And RPM&O, no I haven't taken it to toyota or a garage to have them check it on their computer, I just can't believe things have gotten this bad in 2 weeks, since my last numbers were run.

Anyone reccomend a good independent shop in the Bay Area? Never had a good experience at the WC dealership.

 

[dwh]

They seem to have different standards for different vehicles. I just got my old '76 Ford E-250 with a 460 engine smogged a couple weeks ago. No computer, no cat, no air pump - just an EGR. It even has a small hole in the muffler - just noticed it the other day while goofing around under the truck.

15mph
%CO2 - meas 13.5
%O2 - meas 2.0
HC - max 341, ave 87, meas 96
CO - max 4.5, ave 1.02, meas 0.14
NO - max 2888, ave 917, meas 1039


25mph
%CO - meas 13.9
%O2 - meas 1.5
HC - max 297, ave 78, meas 66
CO - max 4.5, ave 1.01, meas 0.17
NO - max 3043, ave 787, meas 913


My printout says, "Inspection Reason: High Emitter Profile", but says nothing about "Gross Polluter".

It's ridiculous that my truck could pass but yours doesn't - even though yours has lower emissions...


Here's a thread that might help:

http://www.yotatech.com/f2/failed-ca-smog-high-no-level-help-48440/

 

[shortbus4x4]

NOX is caused when the combustion chamber temps exceed 2500 degrees. This causes the nitrogen and oxygen in the air that goes in the cylinder to come out the tail pipe as oxides of nitrogen which causes acid rain. To control nox EGR valves were installed starting in the mid 70's on vehicles. If some of the space in the cylinder is taken up by an inert gas then your combustion temps are lowered. Exhaust is pretty much an inert gas and is cheap to come by when you are running an internal combustion engine.

When I am diagnosing a vehicle that has failed a smog inspection due to high nox I start with the EGR valve. Make sure its working, opens and engine stumbles when you apply vacuum to it or command it on with a scantool. This checks the EGR valve and the pasages the exhaust gas flow through. I have seen some instances where a OBDII vehicle will have plugged passages and fail to trip a check engine light. Make sure your vacuum lines and hoses are hooked up correctly and you have vacuum from the engine to the vacuum control solenoid. Hope this helps some.

Looked at your numbers again for the second test. I would really want to hook this up to a scan tool and see if you have any codes and read the data stream. What did the CRC snake oil say about using it on vehicles with CATS? What is your MAF reading? I haven't had the best of luck with cleaning them. I consider it more of a temporary fix and usually recommend replacing them. Before you throw a CAT on you need to diagnose the root cause of the problem and to do that you really need to be able to read codes and data stream and interpert them. Otherwise you can throw a lot of money at your truck and not fix it.

 

[bikerjosh]

NOX is caused when the combustion chamber temps exceed 2500 degrees. This causes the nitrogen and oxygen in the air that goes in the cylinder to come out the tail pipe as oxides of nitrogen which causes acid rain. To control nox EGR valves were installed starting in the mid 70's on vehicles. If some of the space in the cylinder is taken up by an inert gas then your combustion temps are lowered. Exhaust is pretty much an inert gas and is cheap to come by when you are running an internal combustion engine.

When I am diagnosing a vehicle that has failed a smog inspection due to high nox I start with the EGR valve. Make sure its working, opens and engine stumbles when you apply vacuum to it or command it on with a scantool. This checks the EGR valve and the pasages the exhaust gas flow through. I have seen some instances where a OBDII vehicle will have plugged passages and fail to trip a check engine light. Make sure your vacuum lines and hoses are hooked up correctly and you have vacuum from the engine to the vacuum control solenoid. Hope this helps some.

Thanks, I don't believe 98 4runners have an EGR valve.

If all goes well I'll finish up with the health issue crap in CO and be home over the weekend to start round three with my 4runner.

Thanks for the help-Josh

 

[shortbus4x4]

If it doesn't have an EGR valve then it has variable cam timing which fulfills the same basic function of the EGR in getting some exhaust gas to stay in the cylinder for the next compression stroke. I haven't been under the hood of a late 90's 4-Runner for quite a while so I can't remember.

 

[bikerjosh]

Just for kicks try run the entire tank of gas and crc addtivie through. Most of the additives are desinged to burn off build up. Sometimes you can acctually see the cloud come out the exhaust pipe. These also tend to burn hotter than the reg fuel mixture to help burn the carbon off. Try again with fresh tank of gas... Possible a professional fuel line / injector service to clean out the crud would resolve.

All just guesses though...

Thanks, but I added a bottle of CRC with a full tank already, and ran it through before filling with a full tank of chevron premium and driving for another 80 miles flogging the thing. Wondering of the emissions from the CRC toasted the rest of the cat? As soon as I get back home I'll look to ge the cat tested and replace with one or two if needed.
Then get a new fuel map.
I have too many things I need/want to do, just need to get it smogged to get it legal in state before I invest more sweat equity in it.
Josh