HELP! Power wagon or Cummins?

Clutch

<---Pass
It doesn't matter that, that vid was in Australia. It was an example of the muddy roads I drive on every weekend. Did you think I was from Oz? Did you think that there's no mud over here?

-Wet grassy fields
-silty and slick river crossings
-soft beaches (not that packed down Daytona cake)
-hunting in the winter
-flooded roads, flooded park roads
-ice and snow on any uphill
-tight turns in deep snow with a heavy crusty icy top layer.

Once you sink in, and start dragging your front diff, it's over. Trucks with too much weight on their nose sink in and get stuck first. If off road use is a must, but towing BIG isn't, go gas. Save 1000# on your front axle. We see this all the time. Big trucks struggling, F150's coasting right on by. It's one of the reasons why I'm not adding a 300# front bumper and 100+# winch to the nose of my truck.

If you're stuck deciding between gas SUV's and a PW, thinking about a diesel is a major mistake. Unless you plan on towing 2 jeeps and hauling a camper, in the future?

The conditions here vary wildly...we are mostly high desert, but when it rains the mud is something else, it is like brick mortar and wet clay. Then toss in snow and ice during the winter. Come spring with the snow melt...it gets gnarly out there.

Right now in the desert it has been dry...so dry we are getting silt beds in heavy traffic areas. When it starts raining...that is when it turns to brick mortar.

Then head up into the mountains...completely different ball game. We have so many dirt back roads and trails...can damn near travel the whole state without touching pavement. Which is fine by me! ;)
 

Regcabguy

Oil eater.
I don’t disagree. But, it is just that - a spacer kit with lower end shocks. You can run 37’s with Thuren/Carli, but you are gonna pay more. But, you will also get a much better ride. That’s why I suggest eveyone should do their homework and see what they need and what works for their budget. This forum is an excellent resource for that.
Agreed. Carli or Thuren will give you the most bang for the buck.
 

Sempertoy

Explorer
SemperToy's original post does not make it clear that he needs the capabilities of a PW. No mention of serious off road stuff, crawling, mud, etc. But that does not rule out the PW. I have a PW and it is the best truck I have ever owned, so there's my bias. OP can do the diesel maintenance himself, so that will save a pile of money. He's planning some long trips, so points to the diesel for fuel economy and range. But will the fuel savings offset the initial cost diff between a PW and a Cummins, assuming he adds PW capability to the Cummins? Probably not, but maybe. Heavy trailer or big boat, go for the diesel, but I don't see that need in the post. Cabover camper or pop top camper, PW is fine. A PW with a 6.4 will haul an awful lot of stuff, and do it quietly and comfortably. The PW's reduced payload and tow ratings are a direct result of the suspension tuning for offroad and flex, but the ratings are still substantial. My PW has leaf springs in the rear and I added Carli Hemi spring packs plus Thuren shocks and Firestone airbags, so plenty of capability without straining the PW, and it still rides and handles better than my Tundra CrewMax. A Cummins is HEAVY, and that makes it less suitable for offroad use, despite what the diesel bros will claim. That is one reason Dodge did not build the PW with a diesel, because they planned to sell them to the Forest Service, fire departments, cops, fish and game, etc., and those guys don't want a truck that sinks the front end every time they get into the muck. In the PW's favor, if you try to add PW capability to any normal truck, you'll spend far more than the cost of the PW option on a 2500. So my take is that the PW is the way to go if you think you'll need what the PW delivers. If you just want a truck, there is nothing wrong with a Cummins, but it's gonna cost you and it will never do PW stuff as well as a PW. And a PW will never do diesel stuff as well a Cummins, but it comes close enough.

Forgot the required rant on AEV: their stuff is cool and pretty and all that, but is grossly overpriced and seems intended for sale to posers. If you go to the PW Forum, there is a lot of discussion about AEV's product, pricing, market strategy, flaws, etc. Their stuff is cool but does not seem to be as functional as the stuff from Carli and Thuren. I have dealt with and have products from both Carli and Thuren on my PW and think highly of both. No direct experience with AEV.

I should have clarified on this point. I intend to use the vehicle offroad as much as possible. I take a trip to Moab every year and run fins, hells revenge, poison spider, kane creek etc and would want to continue to run trails that the PW could access. Not sure if it can make it through the squeeze on elephant hill, but that's another favorite of mine.

Previous LC was a fully built 80 on 37"s, current is a 100 series that I haven't put much money into as I find it a bit bland...
 

Dalko43

Explorer
You want a cummins! It sounds cooler under water

View attachment 483720


That's ballsy, though to be fair I'd be more concerned about the electronics around the engine than the engine itself for that kind of crossing.

Have you ever tried putting a winter grille cover on for deep crossings? I've always thought that might be a half-decent solution for a water crossings which might otherwise seem unfeasible without a snorkel.
 

Big Ern

Member
Based on your anticipated offroad usage, it seems like the PW is the better call for you. You'll get a lot more functionality right out of the box. I wish Ram would offer an "Expedition Wagon" - 3500 Cummins diesel with Aisin tranny; upgraded shocks, e-rated A/T tires, front/rear lockers from, and a winch.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
Based on your anticipated offroad usage, it seems like the PW is the better call for you. You'll get a lot more functionality right out of the box. I wish Ram would offer an "Expedition Wagon" - 3500 Cummins diesel with Aisin tranny; upgraded shocks, e-rated A/T tires, front/rear lockers from, and a winch.

This is what I wanted from the start, seems the only way to do it is to build it yourself or buy an AEV Prospector/XL.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
Yeah...that’s what I’m doing ie building on a 2500 ctd. The e-locker is an issue. Wish it was offered by Ram.

Detroit out back and ARB up front or just put an ARB in both diffs.

If we decide to do a dedicated flatbed build it will likely be a new truck altogether on a 2500/3500 CTD truck. So torn because I love the Power Wagon the diesel trucks need quite a few expensive upgrades to put them on par with it, but that diesel power/range is appealing and I miss it.
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
We've been doing the opposite over here with great results.

Autolocker front, selectable rear. Yukon Griz, Yukon Zip. I think the new PW's only come with 4.10 gears. So building your own makes more sense if that's not enough gear. I could have swprn that o'der ones had a decent 4.56 gear. I like 4.88.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
I think the new PW's only come with 4.10 gears. I could have swprn that o'der ones had a decent 4.56 gear.

They did, they had 4.56's but only with the smaller 5.7L Hemi. I agree, 4.88's for 37's is nice, 5.13's are great too especially if you go 38-40's.
 

Ravenmad

Observer
I run 4:88s with my Continental MPT 81s, ARB front and gear driven limited slip in the rear. I was very close to an ARB in the rear, but I wanted the reliability of the "no-spin" in the rear for towing heavy. I will say, it works very well off road except for low speed in packed snow and ice (it will send all power to one tire), oddly, in dry dirt and rocks it distributes the power very well. A detroit in the rear would have been amazing, however, it will absolutely mess with your traction control / stability control and is a no go on these new trucks, actually, I don't even know if its offered for the rear diff. anyways......... I still say build a diesel 2500 prospector XL, I have yet to have a problem with the extra weight, I simply run the proper tire pressure. I also run a 41" tire lol
 

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