Horizon Trailer COPYCAT

[Martyn]

Bob

We do not intent to buy the Camping Lab Chinese tents. Camping Labs is importing a tent from Africa made by Myway. I met with the owner of Myway Tents a few years ago and really like his product. We want to work with Camping Labs on these tents.

 

[robert j. yates]

scum of the earth here.

I started building the trailer to see if I could save myself a chunk of change. I actually told Mario I was building my own when I picked up the coupler and key locks. I was quoted by Mario that a fully loaded trailer would run me between 20 and 24 thousand dollars. I did not have that type of money to put into a trailer like this. I decided to build my own. I mentioned it to others on the FJ board and some wanted to keep track of what I was doing. Friends of mine saw the basic frame and encouraged me to follow through with it. The comments about getting a bigger area was honest. I did not have the room to do it hardly. Being able to build it on the floor and moving it to another site was a hopefull option. It did not materialize.

I have turned down building several trailers, and one large order as I do not have the time to do it. My goal was and always has been to build one trailer a month. But when I first started the project the interest was way more than I thought it would be. I entertained building more, but have pretty much decided not to pursue it. I am not a kid any longer and want spare time to spend with the grand children.

I was called by a representative that provides roof top tents. He stated he wanted to mass produce my trailer. I told him I would entertain the idea, but with talking with the wife, she feels it would be too much to take on.

I have 4 trailers on order currently, one being built as we speak, one to start on the 8th of August. I have to build in November, and one in December. I will not build any in September or October.

It is exciting to develop a product and have every single person that sees it be impressed with it. We did not take a single order for trailers at the Summit, as we were not a vendor. I did not want to violate any rules or regulations of the forum or the summit.

If copying the overall look of what I went to buy is wrong then I am guilty. I do feel the price I was quoted was way way way way over priced, but I never and will not state that the Adventure Trailer is not a high quality trailer. I was impressed with it.

The trailers are similar in dimensions. But far from exact.

Width, mine is two inches wider as mine are designed for FJ's
Side boxes are 15x15 by 48. Theirs are 14x14 by 54
The main boxes are completely different.
The frame is totally different I would assume. I never looked at theirs to have an idea, until after I had built mine.
The axles on mine are Dexter Torflex, which I used back in the late 70's with no failures. So I went with them.

According to my lawyer, patent infringement means being less than 10% different. The only thing on the trailers that is the same is the coupler. Which I bought from Mario. He does not manufacture it.

This has grown way out of proportion. And I am sorry for the heated discussion it has caused. I admire you all for supporting the vendor you bought your trailer from.

I did not start this project to become a competitor of Adventure Trailers. It may end up being that, but I doubt it.

Comments about comparing the two was in response to it being a cheap copy cat trailer, cutting corners to make it cheaper. The cost on my personal trailer was quite a bit less than theirs, as I did all the work. My trailers are not that much less than Adventure Trailers.

I used the frame that I built all of my trailers from. That was nearly 30 years ago and many of them are still on the road. The frame of the trailer is the backbone and the most important part of it. I did not feel and still do not feel that they have a better frame, or a worse frame. It is their design and I am sure it is more than adequate, as is mine.

As far as safety problems, I will investigate those. I would assume it is the placing of the tail lights, which have been moved to the outside. The carb problems are minor as the trailer is sold with out gas cans. Every single motorcycle trailer, jet ski trailer use the fluid containers. I would not worry too much about that

But now I must find another tent provider. As camping lab, which imports tents from China will no longer provide them to me as Adventure Trailers will be buying and using the copied tents from China. Amazing isn't it.

Wow....just plain wow.

 

[mountainpete]

Ladies & Gents,

This is a tough thread. On one had we have good discussion here and on the other it's becoming disrespectful and, depending on your perspective, inflammatory.

If you wish this thread to remain open, please demonstrate the respect and objectivity that makes our community special.

Bob, welcome to ExPo. It's a disappointing that you can't arrive here via a different trail, but welcome nonetheless.

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Trail Monkey]

Martyn

I had no idea you were so poetic.. What a great post. Multitalent in deed:hehe:

And now I now what a copy really is :iagree:


As for BOB... I dont know you... And I havent said anything here negative about you. You must love our passion or you wouldnt be building trailers like these. So regardless of what you did or didnt do that was or wasnt proper. I hope you stay on this board. Your input will probably be beneficial, after we get past this huge rant of a thread...

In the meantime I cant wait to buy an AT clamshell...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Paul R]

You must love our passion or you wouldnt be building trailers like these. So regardless of what you did or didnt do that was or wasnt proper. I hope you stay on this board. Your input will probably be beneficial, after we get past this huge rant of a thread...

:iagree:

Welcom to ExPo :arabia:

 

[bob]

Thank you guys, Martyn and I are talking.

I honestly did not steal ideas, just the look, which I had honestly built many years before. A plumber who wanted a truck outfitted, but could not do it. So we built him a minature one. I am trying to locate it now. I have pictures of the trailer somewhere I think. I am tracking the owner to see if it is still on the road.

Product loyalty is a good thing. I can handle the heat.

Some things were taken out of context or type that way, I am not sure.

I have no hard feelings for anyone, it is good to have loyal customers and friends. My customers and friends feel the same I hope.

Hoping that this ends with smiles and we all hit a trail someday soon.

Bob

 

[spressomon]

In the meantime I cant wait to buy an AT clamshell...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we can start a petition to hurry them along :jump:

 

[bmonday]

Few things frustrate me more than someone gaining from another person's sweat equity, and that's why I've been so vocal here. I don't even own one of AT's trailers (wish I did), but I have purchased some of their can holders and a few other accessories to go onto my own 416 conversion.

The suspension of the AT trailers might be an adaptation of existing suspensions in other markets. But the fact remains that they know it is the best solution for their trailer because they tested the bejesus out of various suspensions over the years, offroad, in this application, and they've continued to improve on the design. Sweat equity. They are regular and frequent contributors to the expedition community, regardless of which of us are customers and which are not.

It chaps my *** when someone swoops in and completely nullifies all the hard work these guys did, simply reproducing the end result of all those years of R&D in a matter of weeks, and sells it for half the price. The Asians are pros at this.

It's like drug companies. They spend decades sometimes developing a drug, and then have just a couple years to recoup all those costs before someone reverse-engineers it and produces a generic. I have friends that have been working for over 10 years on a new delivery mechanism for a cancer treatment, and they get paid *JACK* until they can get to market with it. These people are doing God's work, and we vilify them because the end result is expensive, and we sell them out to the first company who can produce a generic. And these are the people we're relying on to keep pouring their own money into cures for cancer, alzheimers', AIDS, and all the rest.

It's shameful, and it ought to stop. And it stops with us, refusing to buy copycat items, regardless of their quality. I don't copy movies, and I don't download pirated music. People deserve to be paid for their efforts.

However, if it appears that Bob is not profiting from AT's years of R&D, I'll be the first to offer an apology and wish him the best of luck in his endeavor.

OK, enough from the soapbox. Here's some pics of my AT-wanabe to lighten the mood:

 

[teotwaki]

I bet everybody abandons this thread if we start talking about religion...

I'll just hijack it for Global "Warming" (wink)

 

[Connie]

Hey bmonday I like the space between the top of the trailer and the bottom of the tent. First thing I thought was, put a little chicken wire around that and I wouldn't need a fridge. :eatchicke Hmm, maybe sleeping on top of a chicken coup wouldn't be so good. But still, spare tires, extra fuel, plenty of water for showers. Hmm, now I see why I should not own a trailer...No, I'm sure the jacuzzi would fit. GVW doesn't apply if it's in the trailer, right?:jump:

 

[mrbishi]

bmonday I really like your trailer - top work!

 

[slosurfer]

bmonday, nice work. Makes me want to work on my trailer.

I'm interested to see how this turns out. I have learned something here, I should wait to comment before I have more knowlegde on the subject.

I will say this:
I'm not an AT customer, yet, but I know I will be once I'm able to start working on my trailer again. I've always been impressed with how much knowlegde they are willing to share with those of us who have chosen to build or retrofit our own trailers. This alone would make me choose AT were I financially able to be in the market for an offroad trailer. (or should they ever need a ton of tile work done in trade )

 

[Andrew Walcker]

Bob, welcome aboard!:beer: Good to have another trailer manufacturer with many years of experience on this site. As you can see this site is fiercely protective of AT due to all that the company does for the overlanding community. AT has been the only NA expedition trailer company that I know of to successfully manufacturer a large amount of trailers on a monthly basis and has set the bar very high for others to follow. You will not find a finer group of guys than Mario, Martyn and Scotty.

In so saying that, you could not have picked a better set-up, IMHO, than the Horizon to begin your trailer build. AT knows that competition is a fact in a free market and is what defines free enterprise and entrepreneurship. I think that Mario said it best in this post…

...We will preface this by saying that we believe that honest competition is good and that a rising tide raises all ships. We know that trailers are becoming more popular and sought after in the overland expedition community, in part due to our efforts our the past seven years. It is only natural that others will start to serve the market...

 

[Martyn]

bmonday, nice work. Makes me want to work on my trailer.

I'm interested to see how this turns out. I have learned something here, I should wait to comment before I have more knowlegde on the subject.

I will say this:
I'm not an AT customer, yet, but I know I will be once I'm able to start working on my trailer again. I've always been impressed with how much knowlegde they are willing to share with those of us who have chosen to build or retrofit our own trailers. This alone would make me choose AT were I financially able to be in the market for an offroad trailer. (or should they ever need a ton of tile work done in trade )

Chris

I looked through your portfolio a few weeks ago and it is absolutely amazing. Having worked the construction trade, built my own home addition, and dabbled in tiling I am in awe.

We should think about a custom mosaic trailer

 

[1leg]

I'm glad to see this thread turn around.

Welcome Bob.