ITTOG
Well-known member
Back in the 80's/90's it was a still and/or weed. Not sure when it transitioned but yeah, today it is meth.
How are you guys handling yourselves in strange circumstances off the grid?
- Thread starter leftcoastal
- Start date
Bodybag
New member
I carry everywhere I can, better safe than sorry. today's society is reckless and dont care. for the most part, I try to walk away from situations that arise. I'm too easy going to get mad over dumb stuff. I carry when I mountain bike, had a couple of issues with a homeless guy and a hunter, resolved peacefully .
Oscar Mike Gulf Yankee
Well-known member
Did those guys know they were messing with "Bodybag" ? LOL
Bodybag
New member
LOL, nope, long story on that.
Fortunately (maybe?) Meth is being imported en mass by the cartels across the Mexican borders. Meth labs are a thing of the past, it's easy to come by and cheap. No need to make your own.
I'd say the clandestine labs died out around 2011-15ish...
To stay on topic I usually have a pistol on me, and a rifle if I'm hunting.
direwolf82
Active member
I respectfully disagree. Showing that I have a gun on me has stopped multiple people from harassing/robbing me and I have never had to pull the weapon out of its holster.
When approached I stay calm, when calm doesn't work then it's a shirt lift and that has stopped everyone so far and I haven't had to shoot anyone so the gun does work without having to pull the trigger. Most criminals aren't looking for a fight, they want a victim.
Crazy people are a different story but in my experience the so called crazy people stop acting crazy when they see a gun.
I have since moved to a better place and don't need to worry about that stuff so much anymore but a gun is a good deterrent.
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direwolf82
Active member
It's about being ready if something happens.
I get you guys don't have guns like we do but your violent crime stats are pretty close to ours but your lack of guns hasn't stopped violent crime, that's why there was talk about banning pocket knives in London because even without guns violent crime was present. if someone attacks your family with a machete your only way to fight them is with a machete or your hands, are you really comfortable with that scenario or would you prefer something that has a chance at scaring them away before anything happens or stopping them quickly if it does?
I think that criminals shouldn't have the advantage or be on an even score over law abiding good people. My sister isn't huge, she's tiny, she can't fight but the city she lives in has a lot of gun and self defense laws, they also have a higher than average rape statistics. I would love for her to carry a gun there, at least that would give her more of a chance if something happens.
There are good people and bad everywhere in every country, people will be willing to hurt others not only to better their situation but sometimes just for the fun of hurting people.
In this country we have agreed that defense of your life and family is not a right given by the government, it's a natural right and the government can't (isn't supposed to) tell you how to defend your own life and those of your family members.
The government does however say that rape, murder and a plethora of other things are illegal and you can't do them but people do anyways.
Is England really that good that you can go anywhere at anytime and never have a thought about getting robbed or worse?
Not facetious either, genuine question.
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calicamper
Expedition Leader
I do think the opportunistic crime once thought of as only a “city” thing have plenty of cases/examples outside the city today. As I explained to a new neighbor. The criminals have Google maps now too?. Even if your in a small town suburb working in your front yard your in a exposed easily seen space for which anyone cruising thru looking for easy money, your a potential target. Sadly thats our current situation these days. Our super quiet end of the road neighborhood (ie you have to have some reason to be here, your not going to just drive thru here otherwise) also lots of local people out walking all hour’s of the day especially after the pandemic.
About once a week someone in our area calls the PD to report mail theft, property theft etc. I have two calls my self. I walk with one ear pod (curb side) in and have local PD non emergency number in my phone. I don’t even pull out my phone. I just say (Hey Siri call non emergency PD) crooks don’t even realize they are being called on. Both my cases ended up with arrests local PD took a statement. Both cases were some sort of pretty serious criminal out on bail back at it.
You can get these same people anywhere today. I don’t feel the need to carry self defense equipment in my neighborhood given its easy enough to get away plus 100lb Doberman walking with me has a big effect on people leaving me alone lol.
But out hiking definitely bear spray primarily for animals, secondary people ?. I definitely have gotten to the point where homeless encampment proximity and even illegal grow activity mean’s I’m out and moving on. I have seen the cartel impacts on CA public lands ie illegal grows. I have delt with seriously unstable people from homeless encampments. Both fall into the category of highly unpredictable to the level of zero logical ie predictable behavior that you can count on to keep any sense of normal logical human behavior. Which makes them pretty dangerous.
If you like going places where lots of unpredictable ie unstable people tend to congregate then yeah makes sense to carry protective equipment. But most people will choose to avoid those situations. But those situations are getting harder to predict example the recent shootings at HS graduation ceremonies ?
. Random attacks on people having a BBQ gathering at their house etc. Follow home armed robbery etc. My 40yr neighbor from Vietnam has a successful beauty shop one town over has had it over 30yrs. Her husband helps run it and manages several rentals they own. Last yr we had a couple follow home armed robberies and I mentioned to him to be careful etc. About 6 months ago he called me mid day asked where I was. Said he suspected a car had followed him from his wifes shop. I was in our home town at the hardware shop. I told him to cruise by the hardware store small shopping center and come into the hardware store. I mentioned it to the owner. He was right. Couple of gangster kids parked up across and waiting for him to come out. We slipped out the back and went over to a coffee shop and watched local PD pull up on the gangstas. 4 guys, stolen car, two with warrants, guns etc. Other stolen stuff found in the car.
They followed my neighbor 15 miles, through a remote back road canyon no cell signal then into our town.
Point being this stuff can go down anywhere today and your best defense is really paying attention.
About once a week someone in our area calls the PD to report mail theft, property theft etc. I have two calls my self. I walk with one ear pod (curb side) in and have local PD non emergency number in my phone. I don’t even pull out my phone. I just say (Hey Siri call non emergency PD) crooks don’t even realize they are being called on. Both my cases ended up with arrests local PD took a statement. Both cases were some sort of pretty serious criminal out on bail back at it.
You can get these same people anywhere today. I don’t feel the need to carry self defense equipment in my neighborhood given its easy enough to get away plus 100lb Doberman walking with me has a big effect on people leaving me alone lol.
But out hiking definitely bear spray primarily for animals, secondary people ?. I definitely have gotten to the point where homeless encampment proximity and even illegal grow activity mean’s I’m out and moving on. I have seen the cartel impacts on CA public lands ie illegal grows. I have delt with seriously unstable people from homeless encampments. Both fall into the category of highly unpredictable to the level of zero logical ie predictable behavior that you can count on to keep any sense of normal logical human behavior. Which makes them pretty dangerous.
If you like going places where lots of unpredictable ie unstable people tend to congregate then yeah makes sense to carry protective equipment. But most people will choose to avoid those situations. But those situations are getting harder to predict example the recent shootings at HS graduation ceremonies ?
. Random attacks on people having a BBQ gathering at their house etc. Follow home armed robbery etc. My 40yr neighbor from Vietnam has a successful beauty shop one town over has had it over 30yrs. Her husband helps run it and manages several rentals they own. Last yr we had a couple follow home armed robberies and I mentioned to him to be careful etc. About 6 months ago he called me mid day asked where I was. Said he suspected a car had followed him from his wifes shop. I was in our home town at the hardware shop. I told him to cruise by the hardware store small shopping center and come into the hardware store. I mentioned it to the owner. He was right. Couple of gangster kids parked up across and waiting for him to come out. We slipped out the back and went over to a coffee shop and watched local PD pull up on the gangstas. 4 guys, stolen car, two with warrants, guns etc. Other stolen stuff found in the car.They followed my neighbor 15 miles, through a remote back road canyon no cell signal then into our town.
Point being this stuff can go down anywhere today and your best defense is really paying attention.
Interesting post and thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.
I'm not clever enough to respond to your comment in full (nor have the time!), so please forgive me for cherrypicking......
Firstly, if we are comparing the crime figures of the UK to the USofA then we simply have to include gun crime. In the UK we are allowed firearms but there are limitations and the murders committed with legal firearms is very small, multiple shootings are astonishingly rare. Illegal firearms are not that hard to source in the UK and the crime numbers where such firearms are used is very small although it does occasionally happen unfortunately. Neighbourly arguments, workplace differences and petty crimes rarely escalate into serious crime or murder. I believe it might be different in the USofA and I expect that is because of the prevalence of firearms not in spite of them.
The vast majority of murders/serious assaults in the UK (and probably elsewhere) are perpetrated by someone the victim knows. Add guns into the mix and the end result is turned up to 10. No guns, no shootings.
The good/bad people is an interesting comment and I agree there are good and bad everywhere but, and it's a big but.... Society shouldn't need to protect itself with the potential use of lethal force, it shouldn't even be a viable option IMO. Ask yourself where this ideology can lead to? Instead of focussing on protecting yourselves, maybe the focus should be on the betterment of those folks that lack life opportunities and face prejudice. A great example of this is re-offending rates, send a chap to prison in the US and what are his chances of ending back in prison? Look at Norway and their re-offending rates and I suspect the Norwegian figures show a stark contrast with the US and the UK. Too many countries simply don't prepare a felon for a life outside of the the prison service where they become a fully functioning and contributing member of society. And that's before I start talking about mental health......
England definitely has its problems and they are complex and many, but far too often our problems can be traced back to a lack of opportunity, poverty, poor housing, inequality, poor education and a general lack of perceived fairness. However, there aren't many no-go areas in the UK that I can think of and I have been a regular visitor to many deprived area's around London.
To address the points I've made requires serious political will and it just isn't there at the moment. Regardless of anyones political leanings, we in the West tend to vote for politicians that aren't in it for the long term, short term-ism and populist politicians seem to drown out the deep thinkers and long term strategists IMHO.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
I do think the opportunistic crime once thought of as only a “city” thing have plenty of cases/examples outside the city today. As I explained to a new neighbor. The criminals have Google maps now too?. Even if your in a small town suburb working in your front yard your in a exposed easily seen space for which anyone cruising thru looking for easy money, your a potential target. Sadly thats our current situation these days. Our super quiet end of the road neighborhood (ie you have to have some reason to be here, your not going to just drive thru here otherwise) also lots of local people out walking all hour’s of the day especially after the pandemic.
About once a week someone in our area calls the PD to report mail theft, property theft etc. I have two calls my self. I walk with one ear pod (curb side) in and have local PD non emergency number in my phone. I don’t even pull out my phone. I just say (Hey Siri call non emergency PD) crooks don’t even realize they are being called on. Both my cases ended up with arrests local PD took a statement. Both cases were some sort of pretty serious criminal out on bail back at it.
You can get these same people anywhere today. I don’t feel the need to carry self defense equipment in my neighborhood given its easy enough to get away plus 100lb Doberman walking with me has a big effect on people leaving me alone lol.
But out hiking definitely bear spray primarily for animals, secondary people ?. I definitely have gotten to the point where homeless encampment proximity and even illegal grow activity mean’s I’m out and moving on. I have seen the cartel impacts on CA public lands ie illegal grows. I have delt with seriously unstable people from homeless encampments. Both fall into the category of highly unpredictable to the level of zero logical ie predictable behavior that you can count on to keep any sense of normal logical human behavior. Which makes them pretty dangerous.
If you like going places where lots of unpredictable ie unstable people tend to congregate then yeah makes sense to carry protective equipment. But most people will choose to avoid those situations. But those situations are getting harder to predict example the recent shootings at HS graduation ceremonies ?
They followed my neighbor 15 miles, through a remote back road canyon no cell signal then into our town.
Point being this stuff can go down anywhere today and your best defense is really paying attention.
Re offending criminals vs differences in countries is a fascinating data point. Especially when you correlate the basic GOV assistance. You will find far lower re offenders and in general lower basic criminal activity in countries with high levels of public assistance via gov programs. Basically a country pays to fix and assist people with problems that can devolve into basic criminal activity or the GOV and people pay in high crime issues etc.
As for guns in the US? Now that you can print key gun parts on 3d printers don’t kid your self guns will be an issue in every country.
Whats the fix? Simple strict enforcement do something criminal you get caught quickly. GOV assistance on many levels, job programs, basic health coverage (by far number one issue in the US and getting worse!!!) court backed social programs to deal with homeless individuals who are incapable of managing basic daily needs ie mentally deficient individuals etc.
The countries mentioned here as great examples have huge social programs to address the % of their population that struggles to be contributors vs costly drags on society etc.
rruff
Explorer
I have a very different "technique" for dealing with dangerous characters. First of all, I'm not afraid (can't fake that)... and second I greet them like a friend, look them in the eye, completely non-threatening, try to find some common ground.
Predators are looking for prey, and they expect that prey to behave in a particular manner. Carrying a gun does not mark you as "not prey" but may indicate that you are *difficult* prey... which would tend to make most predators look elsewhere. The really dangerous ones are still going to be a problem, though... and you being armed greatly increases the chance of escalation to a deadly level.
I much prefer being unarmed.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
In urban areas the gun is like catnip or waving around cash for all to see. Ooh free gun if I can take it. There are so many people walking/driving around looking for stuff to take most with some level of mental disability that makes their logic hard for any normal sane person to grasp.
If you do carry have a really good holster that helps prevent snatched hardware from crazy grabby types.
Do we think it's better to have "strict enforcement" or have to deal with much less crime due to reducing the reasons folks turn to crime?
I don't think we'll ever completely rid our societies of crime but I do firmly believe that if we are serious about greatly reducing crime then we need to address the reasons people turn to crime and fix that root cause. Prohibition never worked and neither will reactionary policing. There's no simple solution that's for sure!
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Its a double sided coin to some extent. If you have crime issues you need to shut it down fast or it just grows bigger under the pretense look we can do it and nothing happens.
The other side of the coin is yes addressing the leading indicators ie factors that drive people to go that path. Homeless issue in the US is country wide its a Country issue not a state issue. Till our Country decides its a country issue its not going to be addressed. Examples are all over the US even between cities where the unwanted costly problems are given a bus ticket to the next town etc.
Fundamental stuff, mentally deficient individuals incapable of self care need an advocate system that manages the stuff they are incapable of handling. Ie end result no deficient people living on the street.
rruff
Explorer
I agree that in the US we rely too heavily on the "stick". I credit most of our large drop in crime rates (<50% what it was in the early 90s), with increased police profiling and harassment... and incarceration. I have mixed feelings about it though, because I've been the target of that several times, and it really sucks. But it is effective.
The "carrot" part would be a socio-economic system where it wasn't so damn hard for a guy low on the spectrum of intelligence, skill/talent, good looks, good upbringing, etc to make a life that any of us would call decent. We actually had this when I was a kid, so it's not like this is some sort of impossible dream. Currently nearly every developed country in the world is doing a much better job on this side as well.