shade
Well-known member
Makes sense. Like I said, I wondered if there was a point to moving mounts on the F-350.
With my truck, there's much to be gained with a shock relocation before cutting into the bed.
How good can a full-size solid axle suspension be?
- Thread starter Metcalf
- Start date
With my truck, there's much to be gained with a shock relocation before cutting into the bed.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Except all of Carli's Ford stuff is diesel weight based....and honestly biased to the longer heavier trucks in general.
They are great at what they do, but it just seems like they have some holes in their offerings.
Like......you can't run their air bags without running the 4.5" kit on a ford according to their info.
I'm very confident that Accutune can get me really close on the shock valving. They did wonders on my very abnormal LX45 project with the Fox 2.0 Resi package we did on it. I just had to provide them with all the inputs for their calcs. They are very good at what they do.
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CodyY
Explorer
I've looked into air bumps and nobody really runs them and there aren't any bolt on kits.
Not that I'm scared of building them, its just not necessary for me and the use this truck sees.
But I'm chasing baja in April for NORRA, and I'll let you know.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The Fox DSC does a really good job at adjusting both low and high speed compression valving. Generally, you should be adding compression valving as weight ( or spring rate ) increases. I'm not going to be doing off the shelf shocks, Accutune will be helping me with the valving.
I agree full packs are the way to go. Generally, I want the lightest rate practical for the empty/base weight of the vehicle. I would like to have a long travel air bag to add spring rate for the times I need to do truck stuff....tow, haul, etc.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
A bypass shock can also be a good way to deal with low speed g-out type issues that are a side effect of good linear or shallow progressive valving. The downside is a traditional external bypass can make a lot of noise which I don't want.
Air bumps can be good at progressive bottoming control with some added rebound damping. You don't need a lot of air bump travel, but it can be nice to have that last 2" of 'extra' help when you make a mistake and hit something harder than you planned on when doing the boogie across unfamiliar roads.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
BDS has a 4" gas spring kit.
Add some Kings and full Deavers and it'll do everything the Carli does. You just have to do a little more homework to get there. You can always go coil overs up front, if you want a larger selection for cheap springs to pick from.
In case you're wondering, the OEM gas plow spring is the same part number as the base spring for the diesel. If you know anyone with a gas plow truck, that gives you an idea how much stiffer a lift kt with diesel spring might be.
Add some Kings and full Deavers and it'll do everything the Carli does. You just have to do a little more homework to get there. You can always go coil overs up front, if you want a larger selection for cheap springs to pick from.
In case you're wondering, the OEM gas plow spring is the same part number as the base spring for the diesel. If you know anyone with a gas plow truck, that gives you an idea how much stiffer a lift kt with diesel spring might be.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
4" of lift is way too much for me. I only need about a 1.5" coil
The front coilover spring rate availability is a bonus. Carli does have a bolt in coilover tower. It looks like they are getting an 8" 2.5 coilover in there with a 2.5" lift height. I am a little surprised to see a single rate coil on that setup ( really long coil with limited center support from the slider )
CodyY
Explorer
Good to know on the F springs.
After a bunch of reading, with my truck having the 2.5 carli springs up front and a gas motor, I'm a little stink bug, especially with a load. But the 4.5 rear lift is actually for the front lift amount and the rear is only 2.5 inches of lift without the blocks, since my truck drags ass already and I tow, and I run stuff in the bed, I'm thinking I'll go with that pack and then will be able to add their bags if possible.
I found a post ( https://www.powerstroke.org/forum/s...rli-suspension-official-thread-309.html?amp=1) detailing these specs and where the Carli rep says the 2.5 and 4.5 are the same leafs (and shock, btw), just a different arch, so the 2.5 REALLY droops out. Which reinforces my opinion of the 4.5 pack for MY application. I could easily adjust down a little with shackles if needed. This allows me to run their long travel bags, but I'm not sure I'll need them with this setup and my usual loads.
Edit: I'm not personally worried about the spring rate in my truck, I like the planted feel in the steering and am not running any swaybars on the truck at this time and haven't felt a need for them, honestly.
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CodyY
Explorer
Easy enough to swap to 2 coils but you're going to get noise from the slider. That's likely why it's a single, imo.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
good point on the slider, I don't want a squeaky, clunky, rattly suspension
I went out of my way to find a bolt-in bushing style fox 2.0 resi for my 80 series chassis ( ended up being an overseas nissan patrol lift shock part number )
I love that the LX45 project isn't noisy.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
It is an interesting concept. I don't really want a full-time system however? It seem like the foam system would act like an overload, basically progressively increasing spring rate based on axle position. I guess if the mounts where adjustable and you could move them out of the way when the truck was empty that might work.
A side bonus for the air bags would be the ability to help level the truck when it is functioning as a camper.
Adventurous
Explorer
It's a bit on the spendy side, but I've always found myself intrigued by the cheaper Kelderman kit that maintains the OEM leaf spring but suspends the rear shackle with an airbag. You can adjust the pressure to deliver a smooth ride on the road and bump up pressure as load is added. At first glance it appears to deliver the best of both worlds, though I don't personally know anyone with the kit. The rear is, in my mind, the more challenging end of the vehicle, attempting to configure a system that can carry 4,000 lbs of payload yet still not kick like a rodeo bull empty.
Bump stops are a must IMO. The OEM units are always too hard. Not that I want to ride the bumps, but I don't want to be afraid of engaging them, and something along the lines of a basic, taller, more progressive foam unit would help ramp up at the end of stroke allowing a lighter spring to be used. Hell, pair those same lighter springs with a good quality, progressively damped (I prefer progressive vs. regressive) shock and you'd have a reasonably priced, good performing suspension. Air bumps would deliver additional gains, though those come at the expense of maintenance, cost, reliability, and packaging. It's up to you how much you want to spend.
Bump stops are a must IMO. The OEM units are always too hard. Not that I want to ride the bumps, but I don't want to be afraid of engaging them, and something along the lines of a basic, taller, more progressive foam unit would help ramp up at the end of stroke allowing a lighter spring to be used. Hell, pair those same lighter springs with a good quality, progressively damped (I prefer progressive vs. regressive) shock and you'd have a reasonably priced, good performing suspension. Air bumps would deliver additional gains, though those come at the expense of maintenance, cost, reliability, and packaging. It's up to you how much you want to spend.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
I definitely agree that the rear suspension is going to be a significant challenge. The Kelderman rear shackle replacement system is an interesting concept and worth considering. I do wonder how it will deal with cycling the full suspension travel during more aggressive off road driving. I'll have to do some digging to see if I can find anyone running it that way.
A long travel air bag directly over a lighter rate full replacement leaf pack doesn't seem like a bad way to go. I would really like to eliminate the 4" tall rear suspension block to help control axle wrap. I also need to ditch about 1-1.5" of rear height honestly. The truck has 3.75" of rake right now. I found an air bag that seems to cycle 13" of travel.....
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I think if I replaced the factory block completely ( adding some spring arch ) that would create enough space to package this bag outside of the frame over the top of the leaf spring.
Other things on the list for the rear springs is a slight shift in center pin location to help center a larger tire. I would also like to think about adding a little extra shackle length if the new springs have more arch. It would be nice to be able to adjust the final ride height with a slight change in shackle length.
Bumpstops. I agree that most trucks seem to need something better than stock. The newer tall foam bumpstops seem to work really well. I am running a 2000s GM 1500 rear bumpstop on the front of my 80 series chassis. It basically takes all the 'harsh' feeling away compared to the stock rubber units. You can really push the vehicle much harder and it feels like your not really 'hurting' anything.
Ghetto Fab.
Member
It sounds like you know what to do, light spring rate and good shocks, and you already know who to talk to about shocks. You may just need to get a bit creative with springs or go coilover to get there. Don't be afraid to look at other vehicle platforms for the right springs. There are a ton of jeep spring options out there now and JK/JLs aren't exactly light anymore. Also, there may be something available for an older ford or the newer powerwagons that fits.
Kevin
Kevin