How many miles is "too many miles"?

[slomatt]

I'm in the market for a 1999/2000 4runner with a manual transmission to replace my 96 Grand Cherokee which is at the age where it requires nearly constant repairs.

3rd gen 4runners with the manual and e-locker are few and far between, and that coupled with the fact that I really can't stand tan interiors makes my ideal vehicle very rare. I was hoping to pay $8500-10k for a 1999/2000 with right around 100k miles, and have found a few of those but none that I was really excited about.

I just ran across a 1999 with the manual, sunroof, elocker, gray/blue interior, and in my favorite 4runner color (sorry, it's not expedition white). The truck is listed for under $7k, and the only downside is that it has 160k miles.

This will be used as a secondary vehicle that only gets driven 3-4k a year, but all of those miles will be either on offroading/expedition trips or to a ski resort so it is important that the vehicle be reliable.

What are reasonable expectations of a Toyota with 160k miles? Once my Jeep hit about 110k miles everything went downhill on the reliability front even with proactive maintainance. Is there a similar mileage where most 4runners reach the "problem of the month" stage?

Thanks.

- Matt

 

[obscurotron]

Part of the answer to your question depends on how well the previous owner took care of the vehicle in terms of routine maintenance, and whether it was ever abused and harbors latent (and costly) damage.

My dad's 98 4Runner (with the auto, though) has almost 150k on it and the sum total of his 'problems' have been running into 2 deer, a couple of cracked windshields, regular maintenance items (brakes, fluids, oil changes, timing belt), tires, and the dashboard clock (which died around 130k). He doesn't abuse his ride, maintains it properly, but it also sees offroad use, so it's no garage queen.

If there is a point at which you run into problems, I'd say right about now it might be due for rear axle seals (Tacoma/4Runner rear seals seem to detonate around 130-170k). Otherwise, I say if it meets inspection criteria and the owner has records of maintenance, go for it. Properly cared-for Toyotas age, but they don't "age-out".

I'm in the market for a 1999/2000 4runner with a manual transmission to replace my 96 Grand Cherokee which is at the age where it requires nearly constant repairs.

3rd gen 4runners with the manual and e-locker are few and far between, and that coupled with the fact that I really can't stand tan interiors makes my ideal vehicle very rare. I was hoping to pay $8500-10k for a 1999/2000 with right around 100k miles, and have found a few of those but none that I was really excited about.

I just ran across a 1999 with the manual, sunroof, elocker, gray/blue interior, and in my favorite 4runner color (sorry, it's not expedition white). The truck is listed for under $7, and the only downside is that it has 160k miles.

This will be used as a secondary vehicle that only gets driven 3-4k a year, but all of those miles will be either on offroading/expedition trips or to a ski resort so it is important that the vehicle be reliable.

What are reasonable expectations of a Toyota with 160k miles? Once my Jeep hit about 110k miles everything went downhill on the reliability front even with proactive maintainance. Is there a similar mileage where most 4runners reach the "problem of the month" stage?

Thanks.

- Matt

 

[kcowyo]

My 3.4ltr (same as in the 4Runner) is currently at 145K miles. My goal is 250K before any necessary "rebuilding" and that seems entirely likely.

The most important thing to find out about or to do, will be the timing belt and water pump. Not cheap to do if they haven't been done in awhile but those seem to be the two big things that need to be done every 60K-90K miles on the 3.4ltr.

We have 100K miles on our '99 kid hauling 4Runner and no big mechanical expenses yet. Darren is close to 160K miles (some hard miles too) on his '02 4Runner and he just keeps going and going....

The 3.4ltr is tough engine and the 3rd gen 4Runners are as capable but overshadowed by the legacy of the Landcruiser, IMO.
.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Now you got me searching.....

And this site popped up. Not sure how reliable all the chatter is, but it's kind of interesting.

http://www.toyoland.com/club/search.php?q=4runner&type=model


If it were me.....

I would have a complete pre~purchase inspection done, including psi leakdown test, cooling system, tranny...etc. etc..

Because if the engine And tranny fail, they will both add up to your entire initial cost of the used vehicle.

If they are all in good condition, I bet you can get at least another 100,000 miles out of it.


Nice choice!



.

 

[haven]

How about this one?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=253752171

1999 4Runner Limited
manual trans, locking rear diff
120K miles, $9000

or this one?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/887083889.html

2000 4 Runner SR5
manual trans, locking rear diff
120K miles, $8400

There seem to be a decent supply of 4Runners with 5 speed,
but without locking rear diff. How expensive would it be to
add one?

Chip Haven

 

[slomatt]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

BigAl, my ZJ has the 318. The engine and transmission are in good shape, the problems have been with more minor parts. Here's a quick list of somewhat recent issues:
- A/C compressor seized on the way back 2 offroading trips ago. Estimate is $1100 to replace the compressor, clutch, accumulator, etc.
- Rear output speed sensor failed causing erratic shifting during the last trip.
- It started misfiring at idle. I have replaced the rotor and cap, re-gapped the pugs, checked the wires, etc. Other possible culprits are the fuel injectors and crank position sensor.
- Thermostat failed on a trip last year.
- Power steering pulley failed on a trip and took out the belt.
- Power gear box wore out starting binding.
- Pivot point for the transfer case selector wore out, it sometimes pops the t/c out of gear.

Those are the ones I can think of in the last couple of years. In the ~6 years since I've owned the truck you can also add TPS, tranny temp sensor, oil pressure sensor, IAC, valve cover gaskets, motor mounts, O2 sensors, fuel pump gasket, and some other pieces. This is all in only 20-30k miles and does not include routine maintainance parts or things that broke due to offroading. The good thing is I do most of my own repairs and parts are cheap, but it's getting annoying to constantly have some issue with the ZJ.

haven, There are definitely more 5 speeds available without the rear diff locker. A Toyota e-locker can be added for ~$400 but it requires welding and redrilling of the axle housing and also a wring harness. An ARB would cost roughly $1000-1200 installed.


So, my question really is, based on Toyota's reputation of reliability would anybody hesitate to take a 160k mi 4runner on a trip where they would confidentially take a 100k mi 4runner assuming similar levels of maintainance. Has anybody experienced a point with their Toyota where things just went down hill and major components started failing at roughly the same time?

Ultimately I'm happy to keep looking for the 100k truck, but the 160k truck is tempting since it has all the features I'm looking for and the price is very reasonable.

- Matt

 

[AndrewP]

I own 2 Toyotas with significantly more miles than that, and I would not hesitate to (and do) take them anywhere. You obvioulsy will have the occasional problem. Stuff gets old and either doesn't work or just wears out from use. Toyotas respond well to baselining-all fluids, all rubber parts, new brakes and then just drive as you would a new car. Just remember you aren't paying a new car price and so spending some additional time and money is inevitable.

I bought my FJ60 at 160k miles, and it took me about 2 years to fix all the little neglect issues. In the 5 years since then, it's been essentially trouble free, and now at 220K. I just did a 1500 mile trip in it, and will be heading to Surf and Turf in a few days. Your proposed 4Runner should be no different, as long as the PO did not neglect the routine mainatenance like oil changes. This 60 has continually surprised me-I bought it as a 3rd vehicle, but it's become my favorite and I drive it as a daily driver! It has never failed to start!

Those third gen 4Runners are great trucks and I'll bet you'll be happy. If you do your own work, you know how to look a truck over and judge it's condition.

 

[laxtoy]

my sister has a 97 v6 taco with 240,000 on the odo, she has never been one to do a lot of maintenance, so she did have a rear 3rd go out about 20k ago, but i doubt she ever bothered to change the fluids. still has original 5 speed, original clutch (pretty tired at this point), and it runs great. the 9 years she has owned it, it has a lot od different types of driving from short trips to work a few miles away, to 800 miles at a go to montana and back in a weekend. it has been a very good little truck for someone who tends to neglect their vehicles. then there is my 99 v6 5 speed taco, with 151,000 miles, religiously changed synthetic fluids and top quality filters, runs like a brand new truck.

 

[98roamer]

My 93 Corolla has 232K miles on it and I won't hesitate to take it cross country, but I bought it new and did all regular maintenance. My 98 4Runner has 122k and I would take it anywhere but I've had it three years bringing it up to speed.

 

[Cackalak Han]

The first listing that "haven" listed is not a manual (auto lever can even be seen in one of the pics). Limited's never came with the manual option.

If the maintenance has been kept up well, which you can usually tell from talking to the owner, I would not hesitate to buy a Toyota with a 3.4L. I have, so far, owned three 3.4L V6's. One was a superchaged version with 130k miles on it and it ran great. My current Tacoma has 115k miles and it runs perfect.

Just make sure that the 4WD engages well. Also look at the rear seal to see if it's leaking. I'm guessing the suspension system will need an overhaul. Then of course, the timing belt and water pump. Other than that, should be a very solid vehicle.

 

[toy_tek]

I will echo what the others mentioned for routine stuff: rear axle seals, timing belt, water pump, and then add: adjust rear brakes, Brembo front rotors.

My 97 has 155k on it, 105k of which I drove in the last 6 years. It has never left me stranded. I drove it across the country, I've been on 4+ rock trails, I even drove through the Bronx. You don't want to be stranded in the Bronx. I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere.

As far as the options: get what you want, but I wouldn't rule out a truck without a locker if it looks good otherwise. E-locker axles come up for sale frequently if you are diligent in looking. Or you can swap as you mentioned. I went the ARB route. Personally I prefer the auto trans, but thats just me.

BTW: I had a Cherokee before the 'runner. You really can't compare the two, reliability wise.

BTW II: Your hesitation probably isn't the CPS. When it goes, the engine doesn't.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Well . . . any individual endorsement is only anecdotal, not statistically significant.

Nevertheless - Roseann and I just sold our 2000 Tacoma with the 3.4 V6 and automatic transmission, with 215,000 miles on it (and for a good price). I have to say that it was the single most reliable vehicle I have ever owned - even my 1973 FJ40 had had a few issues by the time it reached that mileage.

Succinctly, nothing went wrong with that truck in the time we owned it. The engine never missed a beat. We replaced the original timing belt at a scandalous 150,000 miles--not sure how that happened, since otherwise I'm religious about scheduled maintenance. Oil changes, new plugs every 50,000 miles or so. New brake pads and disks. That's it.

I would have no hesitation taking a similarly maintained powertrain with similar mileage on any expedition you could name.

 

[slomatt]

Thanks for all the input, you've made me feel much more comfortable considering higher mileage trucks. Now the only problem is that the 160k rig is out of the state and I have no time in the next week or so to check it out. Oh well, it seems more and more 5spds with e-lockers are up for sale.

Of course like any good car-geek I've already got my modification path all planned out, now I just need to find the truck.

Here are some of the current options:

2000 / 112k / 5spd / All Records / Gray Interior / No sunroof / No e-locker / $9900
It sounds like this might be the original owner.
http://salem.craigslist.org/cto/858156190.html

1999 / 106k / 5spd / Gray Interior / No sunroof / e-locker! / $9995
This is at a dealership, so maintenance records are missing.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/904198339.html

1999 / 160k / 5spd / Gray Interior / Sun Roof / e-locker / $7k
I need to call on this one and check its history.


One of the above, plus rock sliders, a Sonoran Steel ~3" lift, and 32 or 33" tires would be a great start. The trails we run would kill the clutch so an Inchworm lefty or Marlin dual cases would follow shortly.

- Matt

 

[OTR]

I would have to say that my family almost only buys Toyota's for there reliability. Here's a quick run down and all with minimal problems:
2007 Tundra-42,000 miles= 0 problems
2004 Highlander 95,000 miles= 0 problems
2003 Lexus LS430 80,000 miles= 1 problem
2003 Lexus LX 470 98,000 miles= 0 problems
2004 Tacoma 25,000 miles= 0 problems
1992 Tacoma 240,000 miles= 2 problems
1990 Lexus LS 400 250,000 miles= 2 problems
1996 Camry 180,000 miles= 0 problems

Only Toyota is what my family believes in.

 

[dlbrunner]

My 95 4runner has 97K on it It was factory serviced for the first 35K

I bought it in 2004 with 35K. Not a typo. 35K

I have done the routine service on it myself per factory specs. Changed all fluids to synthetic when I bought it.

So far:

New radiator @ 45K + upper and lower hoses and belts because of a leak. (has another pinhole leak, and has always had toyota red with annual flush 50/50 coolant/distilled)

New Starter @ 97K Old one failed

3 batteries (to be expected in Phoenix, heat kills them)

New ground and positive cables

New clutch master at 75K (due to failure)

New clutch (totally worn out) and transmission rebuild (1st gear syncro trashed) at 88K (rebuilt slave @same time)

New thermostat/ lower hose @ 88K (preventatie maintenance)

I wheel the truck. But I drive like a grandpa, I don't bash it too hard because it is my DD.

Upcoming things that are needed:
Torn outer CV boot
Passenger tie rod ends are rattleing
Butt sag
Front wheel bearing repack
Front brakes (pads/rotors)
I am going to ditch the stock Idler arm, they fold like paper, total junk, I see replacing it with the unit from Total chaos.

So you can see, Toyotas are not a maintenace free vehicle. The tranny rebuild last winter ate into my suspension budget. Maybe I got a lemon, or it is a 13 year old truck, but maintenance issues are there.

Get all the maintenance records if possible. Even if they are available set aside $2K for a shop to bring the maintenance up to snuff, or set aside $1K for parts and several weekends to do it yourself. A lot of trucks get sold at the point where major service is needed. The owners see the estimate and figure they will just get a replacement car. Be very anal in looking at what maintenance has been done and what is needed in the near future.

I will spend money on maintenance long befor new goodies for the vehicle. At the current state of things that need to be done, I will be a while before I can round up the cash to buy any upgrades. bummer

So a quick look back, my Ford exploder was actually more problem free mechanically. Fit and finish stuff was total garbage, but the truck ran like a top after being launched 30 feet, tipped on its side, pounded in the desert, overloaded with core, etc... I am not making any broad generalizations here or doing a Ford VS. Toyota argument, but the Exploder put up with a lot more abuse with fewer complaints. (Puts on flame suit)