I think we are getting down to just a difference of opinion here. Not facts. I am surprised that I would have to defend the 7.3 reliability. It’s common knowledge that the 7.3 are about built proof. After reading your post yesterday, I was on the phone with a client of mine that has Fords. I asked how many miles he was up to….7.3 International with 370,000 and a 6.9 International with 680,000 miles. His 7.3 never had a problem, the 6.9 was sold and the new owner rebuilt it at 660,000 miles just because he thought it was time (not a dead motor). It’s also a proven fact that the T 444E and the Cummuns have the same reliability. Both Cummins and International have studies out proving they are equal. Funny that you mention the Cummins equal to the 22r for reliabity. With the 2 studies mentioned above, that would also make the 7.3 even with the 22r for reliability. I just have a hard time comparing reliability and longevity between a gas and diesel, it’s like minor league to major league.
You also mention power output and infer that the T 444E International is harder to get big power. True, if you are talking about 500-1000 hp. But for 99% of us that are not concerned with that kind of really big “bragging rights” power, a Ford and Dodge can be tuned equal in power for about the same price as long as the power increase is around 320-400 rwhp. That’s the most any Ford or Dodge owner will ever see. The rest are that 1% that are going for big HP numbers and may not be reliable, just show trucks, pulling trucks, or not even daily drivers. And what good is 500-1000 hp when it comes to an expo, off road truck? None!
So getting easy big power from a Cummins is no concern to me at all, just good old boy bragging rights. I think Cummins has that “its just like a big rig” going for it, when it comes to its rep. But that means nothing when it comes to reliability or longevity. All image or perception.
You also say that the 7.3 are getting hard to find used. True, because they are in demand. The word is spreading that the 7.3 may be about the best set up going right now, new or used, for the purpose it was built for. I have even meet one person that sold his 1 year old truck and go back to a 7.3L.
I would like to take your statement above “The only thing more reliable than a Toyota is another Toyota” and put that statement to work. You go on to say “they (Cummins) might make the only motor on the planet that can rival the 22RE or 2F for durability”. With that logic, it would add up like this….22r is equal to a Cummins and its been proven that the Cummins is equal to the International T 444E for reliability and longevity.
As far as this” if you're implying that a Ford will out last or even out-wheel a Toyota you're dreaming.” Not sure what your saying here. The Ford ‘s are leaf sprung (99-04), Dana 60 solid axle (no IFS!), Diesel, come with a 6 speed manual tranny, and good old floor shift 4WD with lock out hubs. (No push button anything) That sounds good to me.
There just big, that’s about the only “wheeling” disadvantage. They are definitely set up right!
Sounds like Nate is set on a LC anyway. I don’t want to hijack his thread now that he is look for a LC.
Louie
4Rescue said:
Well, that was kinda my point, At the time you bought your 7.3 it was stil probably newer than anything this guy will get to lay a finger on. And if you're implying that a Ford will out last or even out-wheel a Toyota you're dreaming. The only thing more reliable than a Toyota is another Toyota. I hear you on the Diesel issue, I've been lucky enough to live in the Holy land of Diesel Toyotas (Australia) and I can assure yuo if Toyota started building Full sized Diesel trucks, Ford and Shivvy would be completely blown out of the water.
I like the 6.0 power wise, but it's just a garbage motor from a reliability standopint and the Auto behind it isn't much better (And yes I've driven both motors and trannys). My old Boss had an 05 SD with the 6.0 and a Manual, fun to drive but I'm glad I didn't own it. And my Uncle had an Older 7.3 Auto that he couldn't wait to get rid of for His DOdge/Cummins (wich is 10 times the truck the Ford cuold ever be) The 7.3 is great for some things, but you've got to do certain very specific things to get it anywhere near the out put of the 6.0. And again, these trucks are getting harder and harder to find. Flat out, if you want an American Diesel, the Cummins/Dodge combo is the best by leaps and bounds. I'd wager to say that any Cummins motor is about the closest thing you can get to Toyota like reliability. In fact they might make the only motor on the planet that can rival the 22RE or 2F for durability, they're just the best Diesel made IMO (in America).
Cheers and No Worries
Dave
