Hubs - Manual vs Lock-O-Matic

[AmericaOverland]

I recently picked up some books for my Scout, and in there I read about manual hubs versus lock-o-matic hubs.

It sounds like to me that the lock-o-matic hubs were an early version of all-wheel-drive in the free mode - if the front drive shaft spun faster than the ratio to the front wheels, then the front axle would be engaged. Otherwise, it would work like a manual hub while in the lock mode.

Is that right? I'm considering a 4WD conversion for the Scout II.

 

[Redline]

I think that's a pretty accurate description on how (I remember?) they’re supposed to work. I can’t remember if the hubs on my first Scout worked as described.

I have mostly preferred to simply lock manual hubs and shift the T-case as needed. Though I wonder if the on-road AWD feature would/could work like a modern AWD car on intermittent dry-slippery pavement?

 

[wjeeper]

My first vehicle was a '72 Scout II.......it had some sort of automatic hubs that were probably factory. If I remember right I had the one year only Scout II D30 front (don't quote me on that) Long story short the hubs never worked.........

Automatic hubs are a cool idea but it seems to me they seldom work as planned. I have swapped out auto hubs for manual on several Explorers, a montero, a 4runner and a ranger. Just my $0.02

 

[Hill Bill E.]

I've had 2 trucks with 'auto hubs' ('83 Dodge 1/2T and '96 F150) I ended up installing manual hubs in both:snorkel:

The problem with the auto-hubs, is when you change direction (back up) they unlock, then re lock.

This really stinks when plowing, or trying to rock the rig, to get unstuck.

On the '83 (plow truck) when it got below 10*F, the hubs sometimes wouldn't lock at all. I ended up carrying a small propane torch in the truck, and having to warm them up so they would work.

Problem being, they cooled down fast while plowing, and becuase you do a lot of backing up while plowing, they would just quit engaging.

I think that's one reason you don't see the Auto-hubs anymore.


On my rigs with lock outs, I engage the lock outs when it starts snowing out, and leave them engaged until spring, just using the T-case to switch between 2 and 4WD.

 

[bobcat charlie]

I bought a Scout II 345 Auto with 'auto locking' hubs NEW in 1975! The Auto Hubs work fine going forward, they would engage. The WOULD NOT engage in reverse! You could get REALLY stuck with the 'Auto' hubs. I went to a set of Warn Premium manual hubs and was happy after that.

The good news is that if you found a Scout that still has the 'Auto' hubs it probably hasn't been abused...or even used hard!

 

[Squatchout]

Most of the auto hubs on domestic vehicles of that era with a Dana 44 front were made by Warn. I have owned auto hubs on both foriegn and domestic vehicles. Both tend to be problematic. More so with age. I would go with manual hubs. I normally change mine to manuals. Much more reliable and function properly when you need them.

 

[AmericaOverland]

I talked with a coworker with Jeep knowledge about these hubs - you're right. I would just stick with manual hubs - less parts, less to go wrong. Now, I have to do some research on what manual transmission/transfer case combos to use on an IH 304 motor that currently has a 747 Torqueflight transmission in it now.

 

[bobcat charlie]

I 'believe' Scout II's were available with T-90 3 speed (rare), T-18 (non sync 1st gear) 4 speed ftom '71 - '78, T-19 all sync 4 speed '79-'80. A very few had an IHC only single speed (no low range) transfer case. The Dana 20 transfer case was used from '72 - '78. For '79 - '80 the very desirable Dana 300 with a lower low range than the Dana 20. The Dana 20 or Dana 300 are both very solid, all gear, transfer cases. Lower range gear sets are available for both t cases, but the 300 is definitly first choice.

BTW, IHC 345 and 392 cu in V-8s are readilly available. Same physical size and weight as the IHC 304 just more power. None of them will deliver very good milage so you might as well enjoy the power. All of them are 300K milage motors...

 

[AmericaOverland]

I forgot something. I was considering a combination like the NV4500 and the Dana 300 set up.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

I forgot something. I was considering a combination like the NV4500 and the Dana 300 set up.

Going that route, you should be able to use a D300 from a Jeep.

The Jeep D300 and the IHC D300 have different mating styles to the tranny.

 

[bobcat charlie]

You can use either the Scout D300 or a Jeep D300 behind the NV4500. I've seen both used, probably with an adapter from Advanced Adapter. An NV4500 with a D300 with a 4:1 gear set would be a great combination!

 

[AmericaOverland]

I wonder what would be a fair price for taking out the 747 transmission and swapping in the manual NV4500 with the D300 transfer case, front axle and shaft... Would I have to have the rear axle swapped as well?

 

[bobcat charlie]

The '77 Scout came with Dana 44 axels front and rear, 3.54 or 3.08 gearing, and they are pretty strong. Before swaping out I'd give it a try with the stock drivetrain. The 727 is bulletproof and cheap to upgrade if you want it even stronger. I ran a '75 Scout II, 345 V-8, 727, Dana 20 T-case, 3.54 gears and 31" BFG ATs. I went all over Baja, Nevada and the Sierras...it was an amazing truck! Scouts have a lot of weight over the front axel making them excellent going up steep inclines....MUCH better than a Jeep! BTW, the auto trans Scouts are surprisingly quick and Scouts handle really well.

 

[AmericaOverland]

BTW, the auto trans Scouts are surprisingly quick and Scouts handle really well.

I will find out sooner or later. Right now, the goal is to get the Scout finished, period. It'll be a while before I can afford to buy the stuff needed for the conversion. I really do miss driving a manual. I remember driving my Dad's trucks in the 80s. Chevrolet trucks. The shift intermesh as you went from gear to gear, the sound of the motor as you revved up into the next shift area. What happened? Oh, that's right. I grew up and went off to college and lived in the big cities from that point forward.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

I wonder what would be a fair price for taking out the 747 transmission and swapping in the manual NV4500 with the D300 transfer case, front axle and shaft... Would I have to have the rear axle swapped as well?

Shouldn't have to swap the rear axle, but the driveshaft will need to be redone (if swapping from an auto to a stick, the stick is usually shorter, requiring a longer rear shaft)

Scouts have great axles, I'm running a D44 from a Scout II in the back of my CJ.