Hydraulic Winches?

[Martinjmpr]

Whatever happened to them? I sold my Montero in 1999 and got a 2wd truck, followed by a Subaru, so I was basically out of the "4 wheeling" community for about 8 years until I got my Taco in January. But I remember that back in '99 hydraulic winches were the ********, supposedly. I remember them being compared to electric winches and (as the story went) the hydraulic winches were lighter and could pull for a longer period of time without excessive strain. I think the company Mile Marker was really big into hydraulic winches.

(for those not familiar, the hydraulic winch connects to the power steering pump as its source of power.)

Anyway, just curious about them. All I see now are electric winches - Warn, Ramsey, etc.

 

[charlieaarons]

Hydraulic winches are great. I have two on my Unimog; I wouldn't have anything else. PTOs are too hard to control and electric winches are worthless for heavy vehicles, plus they heat up rapidly. Electrics are only 10-20% efficient; the rest goes to heat. Hydraulics are 65-80% efficient.
But the best way to have a hydraulic system isn't cheap: a dedicated hydraulic pump with a large reservoir. Milemarker's problem has always been the tiny capacity of power steering systems. I think they'd be perfect if they sold an add-on reservoir with cooling fins. Even 1 gallon would help tremendously.
Something that really is crazy is people actually bragging that their electric winch is light, like that's a good thing. Weight = steel = strength. Lightness = aluminum & plastic = weakness. The thing pulls the wieght of the vehicle and can kill you if it breaks suddenly. Milemarkers are lighter because they don't need all the gear reduction of electrics. They don't make titanium winches and when they do they won't be cheap.

Charlie

 

[ntsqd]

When I read about guys having to mod their PS pumps just to run a steering ram I wonder why you'd want to try to run a winch off of one. You're getting a hydraulic winch b/c you use one a lot and for long pulls, or expect to. Seems like at that point it's time to add the proper pump & reservoir.

Light can be strong and robust, though it is a fine line btwn too much mass and not enough robustness. Mass does not equal strength. Mass equals mass, and that's more weight that you have to haul around. It is much safer and easier to err on the side of excess mass.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I'm torn on the whole hydraulic winch idea... while its a no brainer for BIG rigs (8k gvw and up). I don't think they are always the most conveinient for the average light truck. For one, you have zero winching capability if the motor isn't running (unless you have a standby hydro system run by an electric pump). While an electric system is by no means ideal when the motor is off... it works, and many times all you need is a coupld feet of winching, not long pulls. Then comes all the issues with a more complex system... you now have double the hyrdo lines, fittings, etc to maintain, and the extra wear and tear on the PS system is a major consideration too. Having done quite a bit of experimenting with stock PS systems (such as OE Toyota setups), they are on the verge of underpowered with oversized tires, let alone trying to run a winch. All relative...

As for all this talk about efficiency... sure the hyro unit itself might be more efficient than the electric, but when you consier the 30% efficiency combustion motor that running in order to spool just a couple feet, not too mention to poor efficiency of a standard PS pump. Its all relative.

 

[Pskhaat]

Having done quite a bit of experimenting with stock PS systems (such as OE Toyota setups), they are on the verge of underpowered with oversized tires...

What is your opinion on the integrated pump in the 1FZ-FE?

 

[charlieaarons]

I brought up the efficiency thing to point out where all the heat comes from. It's too bad somewhat can't design an electric motor that is 40 or 50% efficient under heavy load. 4-500A is hard on batteries. In fact an Optima Yellow (55Ah) can supply that sort of current for ~5 min = 15-30' of winching. Of course most winch jobs are just a few feet.
If a motor were 45% efficient and a HD winch were run at half load (6-8K lb), it would only need 70A if the cable speed was the same (6-8'/min). The fact that it hasn't been done implies there's some basic physics involved.

Charlie

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What is your opinion on the integrated pump in the 1FZ-FE?

Adequate for just that.... the steering. I don't think I would dare try and tap into the 1FZFE system for hydro power. They are not cheap components to replace. Don't get me wrong, they are a great system, even with 37" tires and such... but the pump requirements for a winch are pretty demanding IMO. On older Cruisers with Sag power steering pumps, there are high output pumps available, as well as mods you can do to existing ones... still it taxed them pretty good IMO.