I feel another build coming on.....

[red EOD veteran]

Out of curiosity with the truck are you willing to put a long roof rack on it and change the bed to a flatbed? If your set on using a trailer that would allow for more use able cargo space on the truck.

I was stationed in Utah from 09-12, yes 4 people is a small family haha.

I like the old military trucks as campers. They lack comforts in stock form but that can be upgraded

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[DiploStrat]

Australia and Mongolia

Australia presents some special challenges:

-- Despite being a very modern country, it still demands a Carnet de Passage or a monster customs bond. Boo!

-- Australian phytosanitary regulations are stiff, although I have heard of people beating the system by simply not trying and just paying the fine and cleaning charge.

-- The distances make shipping costs, especially Ro-Ro, higher than normal.

Stephen Stewart discusses his trip to Australia here: http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/oz2010/index.html

Charlie Aarons, on this forum, has also done the trip. We did not rent a camper during our trip to Australia and regretted it. We may still make the trip in Ndeke Luka one day.

For Mongolia, Rob and Nina have just finished that trip, you can read more here: http://whiteacorn.com You will note the comments that they have about the difficulty of navigating cities with a truck as large as their Unimog. (Which isn't that big.)

I will be very interested to see how you tackle the problem of lots of people. One thought, since this is going to be costly, have you considered two vehicles, maybe even one as a people carrier and one as a camper? (This assumes a spouse or older kid to drive the other one.)

Your people hauler might then be 4x4, even a Suburban/Excursion type vehicle which is reasonably cost effective. In the old days, Rotel (Google: "Rotel Tours" and look at the images) used a big 6x6 truck as a recovery vehicle for a bus which pulled a pullman trailer. Can't find a picture of it and they seem to be using a new combi bus, but the concept is the same. You could use the 4x4 to carry people, tools, winch, recovery gear, etc. in comfort and then a second, larger vehicle that popped out into a camper. Just a thought. You can see how the Pullman part works, here: http://croftsmexico.blogspot.com/2013/02/rotel-visit.html

Finally, if you like trailers … [video=youtube;wk6KJXeOM0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wk6KJXeOM0k[/video]

 

[Iain_U1250]

If Australia is one of the place you want to visit, you could probably use your exisiting set-up without the trailer providing you stick to the more touristy places. There are always large buses and trucks going up to Cape York, Mitchell Plateau and Fraser Island. Basically the dirt roads are pretty good, with the majority of locals using 2wd station wagons for transport. Your need to be able to have a 800km range, but 1500km would be much better. The Outback towns run out or fuel or close for the weekend, but generally they are around 350km apart. Camper trailers are very popular, but I have not seen a truck and trailer out in the remote areas yet.

If you want to go to the more remote places, then any much bigger than a Fuso or small Unimog will either not fit, or you run the serious risk of staking tyres as the normal Land Crusier/Patrol wheel track is what sets the limits. Any wider and you are driving outside of the ruts or on the edge with all the sharp sticks. Height is not so much of a problem here, but approach and departure angles are very important for creek crossings and sandy tracks. Tracks like the Canning Stock Route, Gunbarrel Highway, Anne Beadell require a lot of permits and trailers are banned. We had to fold in the mirrors on our Land Rover on the Anne Beadell as the track is quite narrow in places.

Australian quarantine is very strict and nearly everyone ends up having to get extra cleaning done. I would definately not just try and bring in dirty truck, the regulations have a maximum amount of dirt allowable, and if you are over it, they could just put it on the next available ship to the port of departure, at your cost.

 

[DiploStrat]

Small clarification, I should have said, clean, but assume that you will have to pay for a certified cleaning in Australia.

Elsewhere in the news, Seabridge, (http://www.seabridge-tours.de/html/verschiffung_australien_neuseeland.php?language=english) a popular RV shipping agency, consider it cost effective to ship to Australia from Europe if your trip is longer than ten weeks. (The consider the US cost effective at four weeks.)

 

[NeverEnough]

Australia presents some special challenges:

-- Despite being a very modern country, it still demands a Carnet de Passage or a monster customs bond. Boo!

-- Australian phytosanitary regulations are stiff, although I have heard of people beating the system by simply not trying and just paying the fine and cleaning charge.

-- The distances make shipping costs, especially Ro-Ro, higher than normal.

Stephen Stewart discusses his trip to Australia here: http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/oz2010/index.html

Charlie Aarons, on this forum, has also done the trip. We did not rent a camper during our trip to Australia and regretted it. We may still make the trip in Ndeke Luka one day.

For Mongolia, Rob and Nina have just finished that trip, you can read more here: http://whiteacorn.com You will note the comments that they have about the difficulty of navigating cities with a truck as large as their Unimog. (Which isn't that big.)

I will be very interested to see how you tackle the problem of lots of people. One thought, since this is going to be costly, have you considered two vehicles, maybe even one as a people carrier and one as a camper? (This assumes a spouse or older kid to drive the other one.)

Your people hauler might then be 4x4, even a Suburban/Excursion type vehicle which is reasonably cost effective. In the old days, Rotel (Google: "Rotel Tours" and look at the images) used a big 6x6 truck as a recovery vehicle for a bus which pulled a pullman trailer. Can't find a picture of it and they seem to be using a new combi bus, but the concept is the same. You could use the 4x4 to carry people, tools, winch, recovery gear, etc. in comfort and then a second, larger vehicle that popped out into a camper. Just a thought. You can see how the Pullman part works, here: http://croftsmexico.blogspot.com/2013/02/rotel-visit.html

Finally, if you like trailers … [video=youtube;wk6KJXeOM0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wk6KJXeOM0k[/video]

I love that video. It was one of the things that got me thinking about a 5th wheel, along with some of the crazy stuff people do with massive 5th wheels in the Utah backcountry.

As for the people problem, I'm working under the assumption that this will be a multiple vehicle build. My family is kinda like cellular mitosis- while we all currently fit into a single large rig, the time is rapidly approaching where several smaller rigs will be a better solution.

Iain_U1250
If Australia is one of the place you want to visit, you could probably use your exisiting set-up without the trailer providing you stick to the more touristy places. There are always large buses and trucks going up to Cape York, Mitchell Plateau and Fraser Island. Basically the dirt roads are pretty good, with the majority of locals using 2wd station wagons for transport. Your need to be able to have a 800km range, but 1500km would be much better. The Outback towns run out or fuel or close for the weekend, but generally they are around 350km apart. Camper trailers are very popular, but I have not seen a truck and trailer out in the remote areas yet.

If you want to go to the more remote places, then any much bigger than a Fuso or small Unimog will either not fit, or you run the serious risk of staking tyres as the normal Land Crusier/Patrol wheel track is what sets the limits. Any wider and you are driving outside of the ruts or on the edge with all the sharp sticks. Height is not so much of a problem here, but approach and departure angles are very important for creek crossings and sandy tracks. Tracks like the Canning Stock Route, Gunbarrel Highway, Anne Beadell require a lot of permits and trailers are banned. We had to fold in the mirrors on our Land Rover on the Anne Beadell as the track is quite narrow in places.

Australian quarantine is very strict and nearly everyone ends up having to get extra cleaning done. I would definately not just try and bring in dirty truck, the regulations have a maximum amount of dirt allowable, and if you are over it, they could just put it on the next available ship to the port of departure, at your cost.

Great info, makes me excited to go to Australia!

 

[Iain_U1250]

I've seen quite a few of the Gall boys videos, pretty exiciting stuff, although what they don't tell you is the size of the crew travelling with them ( the last few seconds probably shows the crew on that trip) They also don't tell you how much damage is done on each trip, broken axles, shredded tyres etc. They have four or five vehicles with them on a trip, so there is always a way out. If you travel solo like we do, then you just can't sustain that amount of damage to your vehicle as they get on theirs.

 

[NeverEnough]

I've started doing some sketches using the dimensions of different chassis options. I'm not sure if I can get my hands on an Iveco Daily 4x4 crew in the US yet, but I like the angles.

The flatbed would only be 6' long, but I could keep the rig at 30'. This shows a 9' max height, but with rooftop stuff it'd be at least 9'7". And I haven't accounted for any lift or tire modifications from the factory specs. WB is approx. 133".

 

[red EOD veteran]

How does the unimog measure up?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[1 Bored Clerk]

Maybe you could modify an E series van body to have two rows of seating (or however much you need) and a small flatbed for the gooseneck? Ujoint Off-road and XP Camper did something similar to an E350 van but turned it into a 'standard cab' van with a big flatbed for the pop up camper. That way you get the seating you want but you still get the stubby van front end. Could save a few feet of length and still use readily available Ford parts for pretty much everything. Might even have enough room to sneak a dual sport or two between the front of the trailer and the back of the shortened van cab.

http://www.ujointoffroad.com/ujorv4.html

 

[NeverEnough]

How does the unimog measure up?

The mog is significantly better, as would be expected. Approach and departure are better than 45 degrees and the ground clearance really bumps the breakover.

I'm pretty convinced the mog would be the most capable off-road platform, but I'm not convinced that type of capability is needed.

Maybe you could modify an E series van body to have two rows of seating (or however much you need) and a small flatbed for the gooseneck? Ujoint Off-road and XP Camper did something similar to an E350 van but turned it into a 'standard cab' van with a big flatbed for the pop up camper. That way you get the seating you want but you still get the stubby van front end. Could save a few feet of length and still use readily available Ford parts for pretty much everything. Might even have enough room to sneak a dual sport or two between the front of the trailer and the back of the shortened van cab.

I'm familiar with Ujoint's XP chassis build and think that something similar is a viable option. There's no question that using the E series would be a much easier chassis to acquire and modify (especially new) in the US than the Unimog or Iveco.

I've also looked at Fuso and NPR options, which make for interesting geometry for this type of setup. The trailer requires about 3.5' of clearance behind the cab to articulate, but a cabover like the Fuso or NPR adds about 2 feet of extra bed/cargo space, which could come in handy. I'm still annoyed we can't get the Canter in the US.

 

[DiploStrat]

Why build when you can buy? http://www.blessthisstuff.com/stuff/vehicles/misc/kiravan-expedition-vehicle/

:Wow1:

 

[NeverEnough]

Why build when you can buy? http://www.blessthisstuff.com/stuff/vehicles/misc/kiravan-expedition-vehicle/

:Wow1:

Maybe if I get a second job..... and a third..... and a fourth..... and sell my kids.........

Even then, 50,000lbs. and 52' is just too friggin' big for how I would like travel overseas, or domestically for that matter. My existing rig, with the trailer fully loaded with dirt bikes, fuel and water is only 32,000lbs and 48' long (the truck/camper is 29'6" long)- and it is extremely limited on where it can go (or at least where I'd like to go). Too heavy, too long, too wide, too tall. Forget the off-road stuff. I've toured on motorcycles overseas enough to know that I'd be excluded from most rural routes with such a behemoth.

And the electronics and system complexity on that baby would scare the crap out of me. Sheesh, this past weekend my son an I were doing a 500 mile linkup of dirt tracks around Utah when the fuel pump on his fancy fuel-injected Husqvarna 250 died at mile 350. Fortunately we were only 10 miles from the last fuel stop and I carry a tow strap. Still required dispatching a buddy to come fetch us with my truck the next day. Two weeks ago the clutch fluid on my Husqy boiled in the middle of a long trail ride for no apparent reason (yes, I now know that the BMW-era Husqy's are glitchy and I'm happy to sell them).

Don't get me wrong, I love the performance of the new bikes (and vehicles), but I could fix almost anything on my old Honda XR in the field. It'll take at least a week just to get the part shipped in, assuming KTM/Husqy have it in the US. Little experiences like that make me very uptight about choosing a chassis for international travel in remote places.

 

[Iain_U1250]

The Kiravan is a bit of overkill. I would agree that anything with a mechanical primary system - ie older mechanical engines etc, would be more robust, and I have kept that in my Unimog despite seriously thinking about an engine transplant with a more modern, fuel efficient and quieter motor. I have a lot of electronic systems on board mine, granted not as much as Kiravan but not that for off it. None of the extras are essential for keeping things mobile. Being able to use older high sulphur diesel, bio diesel, canola oil and more or less anything that pours was a big consideration as we plan on traveling around the world, preferable off the beaten track as much as possible including Africa and South America. In saying that, I've seen people with newer Land Rover going through some pretty remote places with modern common rail engines with only the occasional failure, mainly due to dirty fuel.

If I was just traveling around Australia, then I would have a modern Cummins B6.7 in there now as fuel over here is pretty good and I've had no problems with my Land Rover Defender Tdci over 120,000km with half of it off-road/remote area. Good fuel filtration is all you need to keep things health, and even an older diesel will stop if the injectors are plugged with dirt, just takes more of it.

The trailer will make thing difficult, and you won't get permits to travel with it on a lot of the remote tracks, but if it can be unhitched and you can travel comfortably without it, then it would be great. Hook back up with the trailer when you planned on camping up somewhere for a week or month. It would be a bit of drag pulling across the 1000 sand dunes in the Simpson desert or the Canning Stock Route, but could be transported around to meet up with you at the next big town.

Anything from Mercedes and ex-Military would be serviceable almost anywhere in the world, and they have a great dealer and independent parts supply chain. I can still get new parts from my 1984 Unimog because it is basically the same truck in production and used by a lot of countries around the world. That's the main reason we went with Mercedes.

 

[back woods]

I dont have much to say except a gooseneck is the only way to go off road. I've got a 24ft aluminum stock trailer that is usually pulled by a crew cab F450 or an F700 hauler. You can take it down some rough trails, get into some crazy angles with the truck turned over 100 degrees to the trailer and the trailer being at a heavy off camber angle (especially with a flat bed) without sweating clearances or maxing out the hitch. As for security, when you leave you can just drop the pin out of the trailer and lock it up, or have a switch that locks the emergency break-away brakes if it is tampered with. With a Mog, you'd be able to drag it through some ****. I would want the axle/s as far back as possible to ensure a good departure angle. The only issue we have with our trailer is dragging the tail end through whatever we just drove through.

 

[DiploStrat]

Rotel Video

Dug up a great Rotel video. These cats really are the masters of moving lots of folks though difficult areas in reasonable comfort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w99XRNId79g#t=41

The video is from 1969 and, if you know what you are seeing, shows:

-- The hermitage at Assakrem in the Hoggar,

-- Their communal cooking system,

-- Use of a 4x4 support vehicle,

-- The great mosque at Agadez.

Video found through their home site: http://www.rotel.de

I ran into one of their tours in Tamanrasset in 1974. That group used a Magius Deutz 6x6 as their support vehicle.

Lots of ideas for you to consider buried in their vehicles. Links to their current vehicles: http://www.rotel.de/rollendes-hotel/fahrzeuge.html

More, in English: http://www.gizmag.com/rotel-hotel-on-wheels/14625/