I need to upgrade my truck to a 250/2500

[TexasSixSeven]

i daily drive a 19’ Tundra and have had two others in the last. I despise towing with them. Their brakes are horrendous. My wife’s 18’ 4Runner is the same. I’ve got roughly 30-35K towing on this generation Tundra and hate every minute of it lol Typically use my Super Duty for the tow pig, but sometimes it’s just more convenient to tolerate the Tundra. I’ve got roughly 8-10K miles towing with a 19-20’ F-150, and it’s a much more pleasant experience. The Ford has superior brakes by a long shot.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

i daily drive a 19’ Tundra and have had two others in the last. I despise towing with them. Their brakes are horrendous. My wife’s 18’ 4Runner is the same. I’ve got roughly 30-35K towing on this generation Tundra and hate every minute of it lol Typically use my Super Duty for the tow pig, but sometimes it’s just more convenient to tolerate the Tundra. I’ve got roughly 8-10K miles towing with a 19-20’ F-150, and it’s a much more pleasant experience. The Ford has superior brakes by a long shot.

My ‘21’s brakes are awesome. I’m at 35k miles total. I’d maybe have yours checked out. Don’t assume that because the 4Runner’s brakes leave a lot to be desired that your truck’s brakes are supposed to be the same.

 

[nickw]

This raises an interesting question. Not only are they not held liable at all, there is in fact a *complete* lack of regulation regarding private half-ton and midsize trucks to go with this expansive aftermarket of companies willing and able (without liability) to bolt lots of unnecessary stuff to these trucks. No laws, no regulating govt agency, no DOT sticker or scale ticket requirements for non-commercial rigs with a GCWR under 26,000 lb. If it’s so grossly negligent and dangerous to drive on a highway while over GVWR by 500-600lb, why is this the case?

I’m not advocating for towing over your limits or severely overloading your truck, but if you’re in a Tundra rated to tow 9500lb, and you’re pulling a 9k lb trailer, I don’t see the problem. If Toyota rated the truck to tow 9500lb, then they also rated it to stop 9500 lb. The only number you’re over is GVWR due to tongue weight. And probably only by 500-600 lb. That’s still within combined GAWRs. For me, I’d rather have the Tundra than an HD truck. Remember that the first two million-mile Tundras regularly exceeded GVWR by a lot with heavy loads in their beds. The first guy hauled 2700lb on a regular basis. 77k miles/yr, no issues. ?‍♂️

Maybe it’s just me, but I am FAR less worried about the guy pulling a 9k trailer in his Tundra with a tongue weight that puts him over GVWR—or a 1500 lb truck camper that puts him over GVWR—than I am the guy scrolling on his phone while driving. People doing the latter cause significantly more accidents.

You can't add GAWR together to get any number that makes sense....GA is only to limit over loading an axle.

 

[stevo_pct]

You can't add GAWR together to get any number that makes sense....GA is only to limit over loading an axle.

True but if you add together both axle ratings (front and rear) and your vehicle is heavier than that number (with camper, gear, etc.), then you know you're overloading at least one axle (possibly both, you'd have to measure each axle separately - which you can do at weigh stations).

I think the point we're making above (those focusing on axle ratings) is that those are arguably the more important rating (compared to GVWR), or at the very least, axle ratings have to be considered in addition to GVWR because adding air bags, load E tires, etc. does nothing to help the axle.

 

[nickw]

True but if you add together both axle ratings (front and rear) and your vehicle is heavier than that number (with camper, gear, etc.), then you know you're overloading at least one axle (possibly both, you'd have to measure each axle separately - which you can do at weigh stations).

I think the point we're making above (those focusing on axle ratings) is that those are arguably the more important rating (compared to GVWR), or at the very least, axle ratings have to be considered in addition to GVWR because adding air bags, load E tires, etc. does nothing to help the axle.

I agree with that, I just hear folks adding the GAWR front + rear and using it instead of GVWR....to you comment, all (3) need to be considered

 

[TexasSixSeven]

My ‘21’s brakes are awesome. I’m at 35k miles total. I’d maybe have yours checked out. Don’t assume that because the 4Runner’s brakes leave a lot to be desired that your truck’s brakes are supposed to be the same.

This is my 3rd Tundra of this generation. All of them have sucked from new.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

You can't add GAWR together to get any number that makes sense....GA is only to limit over loading an axle.

Sure, I get that. But when the sum of your GAWRs is 1,000lb higher than your GVWR, you probably don’t need to worry about being over GVWR by 500-600 lb.

This is my 3rd Tundra of this generation. All of them have sucked from new.

Interesting. I’m not saying they’re the best in the segment, but my brakes are still like new and have always been great, especially considering my truck‘s curb weight is almost 6k lbs. I’m pretty hard on them sometimes, and I’m anticipating needing to service them around 50-70k miles.

 

[nickw]

Sure, I get that. But when the sum of your GAWRs is 1,000lb higher than your GVWR, you probably don’t need to worry about being over GVWR by 500-600 lb.

All it means is the axles load bearing capacity are likely not the limiting factor.....whether that is bearings, axle housing strength, springs, spring perch, frame strength or anything relating to the axle bearing weight. It does not suggest that any other drivetrain related items such as R&P strength, axle shafts, drivelines, output shafts, transmission, etc can effectively move more weight than GVWR or if it the chassis can handle it properly.

 

[Bama67]

Tundra payloads are pathetic, my Jeep Gladiator has a higher payload capacity than my full size 5.7L Tundra did LOL

Anyway, if you are wanting something that hauls weight well and is probably the only truck that rivals the old Tundras for reliability, the Ford 6.2 Gas with the 6 Spd Auto is where it's at.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

All it means is the axles load bearing capacity are likely not the limiting factor.....whether that is bearings, axle housing strength, springs, spring perch, frame strength or anything relating to the axle bearing weight. It does not suggest that any other drivetrain related items such as R&P strength, axle shafts, drivelines, output shafts, transmission, etc can effectively move more weight than GVWR or if it the chassis can handle it properly.

If the drivetrain can handle pulling 15k lb GCWR, it can handle the truck being loaded to 500-600lb over GVWR. And I disagree with your statement about the chassis. The rear axle would not be rated to 4150lb if the rest of the truck couldn’t handle that much weight being placed over the rear axle.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I just think you’re overthinking it a bit to be honest. This isn’t some precisely calculated number that exceeding a bit puts you in grave peril. Notice how many manufacturers bump their GVWR up a bit to compensate for added features on higher trim levels—without changing any components at all. I’m not saying it’s completely arbitrary, just not as nail-bitingly worrisome to be 600lbs over payload as some people say on the internet. I don’t do it often, but my truck handles and stops no differently at all. For a slide-in truck camper that puts you over payload but under the rear axle rating, I personally would not be worried at all.

If it were reasonably and consistently dangerous to oneself and everyone else on a shared roadway to put 500-600 lbs more than the truck is rated for on its frame, there would be some kind of rigorous regulatory framework in place making sure people don’t break their personal trucks and cause accidents.

 

[nickw]

If the drivetrain can handle pulling 15k lb GCWR, it can handle the truck being loaded to 500-600lb over GVWR. And I disagree with your statement about the chassis. The rear axle would not be rated to 4150lb if the rest of the truck couldn’t handle that much weight being placed over the rear axle.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I just think you’re overthinking it a bit to be honest. This isn’t some precisely calculated number that exceeding a bit puts you in grave peril. Notice how many manufacturers bump their GVWR up a bit to compensate for added features on higher trim levels—without changing any components at all. I’m not saying it’s completely arbitrary, just not as nail-bitingly worrisome to be 600lbs over payload as some people say on the internet. I don’t do it often, but my truck handles and stops no differently at all. For a slide-in truck camper that puts you over payload but under the rear axle rating, I personally would not be worried at all.

If it were reasonably and consistently dangerous to oneself and everyone else on a shared roadway to put 500-600 lbs more than the truck is rated for on its frame, there would be some kind of rigorous regulatory framework in place making sure people don’t break their personal trucks and cause accidents.

Trailers put different loads on rigs and if they are 15k lbs they obviously have brakes. I think it's safe to say driving up a steep incline over loose rocks in 4wd low is not a use case a manuf is going to model while towing a 15k trailer.....

The rear axle can handle that....no disagreement there, but the chassis is not designed to handle GAWR front + GAWR rear if it's more than GVWR.....

Is 500-600 lbs over going make your truck blow up, nope, is being 500-600 less better, wouldn't you agree?

 

[jbaucom]

For a slide-in truck camper that puts you over payload but under the rear axle rating, I personally would not be worried at all.

Would you seriously go buy a truck for a slide in truck camper knowing that truck lacked sufficient GVW and payload to accommodate the wet weight of the camper plus passengers? Would you recommend to someone else that they go buy a truck that lacks the necessary payload & GVW to carry the wet weight of the truck camper that they plan to install?

 

[rruff]

....making sure people don’t break their personal trucks and cause accidents.

How rare is it for any vehicle to cause an accident because it structurally "broke"? I'd guess pretty damn rare. Steel parts will usually bend a lot before they break. Bearings and bushings wearing out? Sure that can happen... but there is plenty of warning. The dangerous issues are mostly due to poor maintenance.

Rather the concern is being able to control your vehicle... stop and maneuver in a reasonably safe manner, given the load you are carrying. AFAIK no one tests this stuff on pickups. But it's certain that you can make a truck handle much better with a load, with some reasonable upgrades. It's also certain that big trucks, semis, large RVs, and big trailer haulers are much worse at stopping and maneuvering than the "overloaded" pickups we are talking about. These also tend to kill greater numbers of people when they get out of control.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

Would you seriously go buy a truck for a slide in truck camper knowing that truck lacked sufficient GVW and payload to accommodate the wet weight of the camper plus passengers? Would you recommend to someone else that they go buy a truck that lacks the necessary payload & GVW to carry the wet weight of the truck camper that they plan to install?

I’m not recommending that anyone do anything. But RV salesmen do exactly that all day long with zero liability or repercussions whatsoever.

I would have no problems having a wet weight 500-600 lb over my GVWR. I would make some suspension upgrades to my truck to handle the load rather than getting a new truck. And no, the chassis is not going to fail…there are WAY TOO MANY trucks loaded up like this and higher on the road every day…Tacomas, Tundras, Gladiators, and Raptors in Colorado alone make up a substantial data pool. Don’t forget the first two million-mile Tundras. Those trucks were rated for 1300lb of payload driving 77k miles per year bone stock, often carrying 2700lb in the bed. For a million miles each. Imagine the danger everyone was in that whole time! If only they had read Internet forums…but I kid…

I’m sometimes over GVWR with a load of gravel or quikcrete in the bed. One time on a camping trip with my family, I stopped at a CAT scale out of curiosity. My scale ticket said we were 200lb over GVWR. We went all over SW Colorado and did Imogene Pass. My truck handled great and didn’t brake poorly at all. That’s because this number on my door jamb that says “occupants and cargo should not exceed” is a conservatively rated, non-legally-binding CYA for the manufacturer, and I’m fine being a bit over that, especially if I’m not exceeding either GAWR.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

i daily drive a 19’ Tundra and have had two others in the last. I despise towing with them. Their brakes are horrendous. My wife’s 18’ 4Runner is the same. I’ve got roughly 30-35K towing on this generation Tundra and hate every minute of it lol Typically use my Super Duty for the tow pig, but sometimes it’s just more convenient to tolerate the Tundra. I’ve got roughly 8-10K miles towing with a 19-20’ F-150, and it’s a much more pleasant experience. The Ford has superior brakes by a long shot.

Yes, I've had a 2012, and a 2014 Tundra and although i mostly liked it, the brakes and towing anything were just horrendous and scary.

Tundra brakes have been notoriously horrible since the 1st gens and they havent fixed them or beefed them up much since. Bizarre really

DISCLAIMER: Maybe the all new 2022 Tundra brakes are better, but from 2012 to 2021 they SUCKED