I'm stumped on this E-250 fails to start.

[DAV!D]

It's been a long time since I posted here but I wasn't sure where else to ask on this. I have a 2007 E250 that I turned into a camper van. I believe I posted a bunch of pics here when I built it. I cut the roof off, modified a high top for it ect. It had a billzion miles on it when I bought it for $1k with a bad motor. I put a new motor in it that had 8k miles on it from a wrecked car. The van has been pretty much rock solid for a long time but the trans is a little weak but still runs good enough.

I got in the van one day and it wouldn't start (5.4 gasser). Turn the key but the starter doesn't engage. I can pull the starter relay jump it and it fires right up so it's not a bad starter or bad wires. I replaced the neutral safety switch, I replaced the starter relay and the ignition switch but I still can't get it to start.

I get power to the fuse under the dash when turning the key, but I seem to lose power at the plug for the neutral safety switch.

I know this isn't a car help sub but I know a lot of guys have the older E-vans here so I'm hoping someone has experienced this before. I've done everything I can think of and I'm at a loss on it after replacing all the possible easy to do things.

Obligatory picture of the van (sadly never made it a 4wd) but it has 4 hubcaps now.. lol

 

[G35Vortec454]

My guess is bad ignition switch. Time to replace it or wire a push button start switch.

 

[DAV!D]

My guess is bad ignition switch. Time to replace it or wire a push button start switch.

I replaced the switch already (the white one under the column) but I get power to the fuse in the fuse box when turning the key which means the switch should be good but I had replaced it already. (not the key part of the ignition but the actual switch.

 

[motovan_mn]

Do you hear the fuel pump run when you turn the ignition to "on?" If not, it might be that the ECM went bad. Can get a repaired ECM for a couple hundred bucks.

Had a 94 E250 and a 92 F150, and both had this problem. Assuming the Fords with the Tritons are susceptible to this as well.

 

[DAV!D]

Do you hear the fuel pump run when you turn the ignition to "on?" If not, it might be that the ECM went bad. Can get a repaired ECM for a couple hundred bucks.

Had a 94 E250 and a 92 F150, and both had this problem. Assuming the Fords with the Tritons are susceptible to this as well.

I don't think the fuel pump would stop the starter from engaging. Also, I can jump the relay and start the van if I leave the key in the on position. I've replaced everything (ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter relay), except the 2 large 60 amp fuses under the hood but both those are good. To me, it seems to be a wiring issue because that's the only thing I really have left but I was hoping someone might have run into this issue and maybe knows a problem spot or something.

It just gets me that I drove the van daily for a few weeks parked it and tried to jump in it the next day and nothing.

 

[turbodiesel]

Maybe try another relay. I know you said you already replaced it but maybe that one was faulty?

 

[NatersXJ6]

I don’t know this for an absolute fact, but based on my 05 F250 having a logic bus, I’m guessing your rig would too. Starting isn’t an entirely electro-mechanical circuit, there are enabling states that need to be met. Do you have access to a good scan tool? I wouldn’t even know where specifically to start, but a good Google for 5.4 Triton start enable conditions is probably a decent initial point (it took all I have not to say “good start) ?

 

[DAV!D]

Maybe try another relay. I know you said you already replaced it but maybe that one was faulty?

Before I bought the new one I tested one of the other relays that was the same in that spot. I bought the new one mainly grasping at straws because I was pretty sure the old was ok being I had tested with a different relay already.

 

[DAV!D]

I don’t know this for an absolute fact, but based on my 05 F250 having a logic bus, I’m guessing your rig would too. Starting isn’t an entirely electro-mechanical circuit, there are enabling states that need to be met. Do you have access to a good scan tool? I wouldn’t even know where specifically to start, but a good Google for 5.4 Triton start enable conditions is probably a decent initial point (it took all I have not to say “good start) ?

Yeah, I'm not getting any codes is the problem, no check the engine or anything. just no fire at key turn but I can start it fine jumping the relay. Sadly I have a similar issue with my 05 F350 that has a 6.0. That one did the same thing no start via key, but I can jump the solenoid to fire it but when I do it has no turbo boost and no gauges... That one I had just had the FICIM rebuilt..

I just can't win with either of them because both won't start via the key but the truck is more issues due to other things not working when running. The van at least runs ok if I jump the relay to start it.

 

[PhillySMB]

Did you replace the starter solenoid that’s under the hood near the passenger-side fender? That commonly fails and will show those symptoms. Easy and cheap to replace. I carry a spare in my van after having it fail on me 12 hours from home in the NH mountains in my previous van.


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[motovan_mn]

I don't think the fuel pump would stop the starter from engaging. Also, I can jump the relay and start the van if I leave the key in the on position. I've replaced everything (ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter relay), except the 2 large 60 amp fuses under the hood but both those are good. To me, it seems to be a wiring issue because that's the only thing I really have left but I was hoping someone might have run into this issue and maybe knows a problem spot or something.

It just gets me that I drove the van daily for a few weeks parked it and tried to jump in it the next day and nothing.

I'm not saying the fuel pump prevents the starter from engaging, but rather that the fuel pump not running is a symptom of the ECM having gone bad. In both of my cases the ECM went bad overnight - vehicle started fine one day, then failed to start the next day.

You didn't answer whether you could hear the fuel pump running, but I guess since you're able to jump it it must be getting fuel. Unless you only left it running for a few seconds.

 

[G35Vortec454]

" no fire at key turn " - - -
This indicates you normally start the car with your key turned to the start position, not with a Start button or a remote start button/switch. The fact that it cranks/starts when you jump the relay or starter solenoid indicates that the ignition key cylinder is not mechanically engaging the Start pin inside, or the start pin connection/wiring to the starter relay is somehow breached.

 

[DAV!D]

Did you replace the starter solenoid that’s under the hood near the passenger-side fender? That commonly fails and will show those symptoms. Easy and cheap to replace. I carry a spare in my van after having it fail on me 12 hours from home in the NH mountains in my previous van.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think it would be the starter solenoid because I can start the engine fine by jumping the relay. When you jump the relay the starter solenoid is used for engaging the starter (I'm not jumping the solenoid but rather the starter relay at the fuse block) but you simply bypass the key, neutral safety switch and ignition switch.

 

[DAV!D]

I'm not saying the fuel pump prevents the starter from engaging, but rather that the fuel pump not running is a symptom of the ECM having gone bad. In both of my cases the ECM went bad overnight - vehicle started fine one day, then failed to start the next day.

You didn't answer whether you could hear the fuel pump running, but I guess since you're able to jump it it must be getting fuel. Unless you only left it running for a few seconds.

I'll double-check the fuel pump just tio be sure but my thinking was being I can get it running by jumping the relay that mechanically stuff like the starter, fuel pump ect should be good. As far as ECU going bad overnight, that's actually what happened to my 05 truck with the power stroke., the FICM went bad overnight, it ran one day then the next didn't. Luckily in that case I have 2 6.0 trucks so I was able to test what happened by swapping computers.

 

[DAV!D]

" no fire at key turn " - - -
This indicates you normally start the car with your key turned to the start position, not with a Start button or a remote start button/switch. The fact that it cranks/starts when you jump the relay or starter solenoid indicates that the ignition key cylinder is not mechanically engaging the Start pin inside, or the start pin connection/wiring to the starter relay is somehow breached.

I put a new ignition switch in it, but if it's the key mechanism. I should be able to pull that switch back out and manually engage it via the pin on top? That would bypass the key mechanism, wouldn't it?

edit on this one.. I'm going to still test it but I'm thinking the key switch is still working because when testing the 10amp fuse in the block under the dash that fuse doesn't get power until you turn the key in the start position. I did test this before to verify that I was getting power there so that likely means the key mechanism is good. It also likely meant the starter switch was good when I replaced it but I was just grasping at straws at that point.

I'm guessing if it's not that, it will have to be a chafed or broken wire, because that's the only thing left.