Increasing Tacoma's GVWR

[shade]

IMHO, the highlighted is a very misleading. Outside of the Rubicon, TRD Pro (maybe), Raptor and Powerwagon, off-road performance is not a consideration in design for mass-produced vehicles that rarely see anything but pavement.

I don't think it's misleading at all, but some clarification may be necessary.

I believe your position is that past the suspension and traction control systems employed, off-road performance is not a consideration in design for mass-produced vehicles that rarely see anything but pavement. If so, that may be true. A suspension or terrain control system can be changed up much easier than a frame, but their offroad performance is considered.

I think you'd agree that offroad performance is enough of a concern that OEMs routinely run vehicles over rough terrain to see how they perform, so it's at least a minor consideration.

 

[nickw]

Camry and Sienna are the same platform. I recall the Camry has a 1000lb load rating. My 2010 Outback was like 930lbs the new 2020 Outback is over 1000 I think. The Sienna has something like 1200lb rating.
The surprising one is the MB Metris that thing has a huge payload rating

The Sienna uses the same engine, has higher payload capacity, more gears in trans (8spd vs 6spd) and lower 1st gear ratio....2021 Sienna Overland Edition ******

 

[DaveInDenver]

The Sienna uses the same engine, has higher payload capacity, more gears in trans (8spd vs 6spd) and lower 1st gear ratio....2021 Sienna Overland Edition ******

It is available in all-wheel drive, too. No low range t-case (so technically a Tacoma has 12 forward gears) but otherwise you might be on to something.

 

[phsycle]

The Sienna uses the same engine, has higher payload capacity, more gears in trans (8spd vs 6spd) and lower 1st gear ratio....2021 Sienna Overland Edition ******

We’ve got one. Pure road trip machine. Trans is better than the Taco. If I ever take it over from the wife, I’m getting this and some 31’s. GC is decent at 6.7” from the factory but it’d open up a lot of places with nearly 10” of clearance.

Toyota Sienna

Journeys Off Road - Toyota Sienna Lift Kits and Accessories.

www.journeysoffroad.com

 

[luthj]

I'd roll one.

 

[nickw]

We’ve got one. Pure road trip machine. Trans is better than the Taco. If I ever take it over from the wife, I’m getting this and some 31’s. GC is decent at 6.7” from the factory but it’d open up a lot of places with nearly 10” of clearance.

Toyota Sienna

Journeys Off Road - Toyota Sienna Lift Kits and Accessories.

www.journeysoffroad.com

Ok, add in better ground clearance....we should probably add better mpg and more range as well.

 

[nickw]

I'd roll one.

Ultimate sleeper rig....probably better rigs if many of us were honest with ourselves ?

 

[shade]

Ultimate sleeper rig....probably better rigs if many of us were honest with ourselves ?

Nothing wrong with the approach, but even an AWD minivan will probably have daintier suspension than a Tacoma. As long as that and the lack of low gearing isn't a concern, life in a minivan could be ok.

 

[luthj]

There us a significant number of mid sized and small pickup owners, even ones who "overland" that don't need much capability. Decent ground clearance, and AWD would fit that bill. My father has been driving an 06 sienna for 4 years now. He keeps saying he will get a new big 1500 series pickup for his projects. But every time be prices one out it gives him heartburn. Plus the sienna is better in almost every way. Larger cargo area, lower deck height, better fuel economy, easier to drive. Plus it can seat 7 comfortably.

Being able to load a 4x8 sheet of plywood into the back, no rigging, plenty of room for loose tools, etc. Its a great platform. In many ways superior to the vaunted pickup truck. Now if only it had solid axles.

 

[nickw]

There us a significant number of mid sized and small pickup owners, even ones who "overland" that don't need much capability. Decent ground clearance, and AWD would fit that bill. My father has been driving an 06 sienna for 4 years now. He keeps saying he will get a new big 1500 series pickup for his projects. But every time be prices one out it gives him heartburn. Plus the sienna is better in almost every way. Larger cargo area, lower deck height, better fuel economy, easier to drive. Plus it can seat 7 comfortably.

Being able to load a 4x8 sheet of plywood into the back, no rigging, plenty of room for loose tools, etc. Its a great platform. In many ways superior to the vaunted pickup truck. Now if only it had solid axles.

I hear ya. A buddy of mine has a Sienna and we can load 4 dudes, 4 mtbs and a weeks worth of gear and cruise in comfort.....we give him #$^@ but ego aside, it works.

Humans are funny...

 

[nickw]

Nothing wrong with the approach, but even an AWD minivan will probably have daintier suspension than a Tacoma. As long as that and the lack of low gearing isn't a concern, life in a minivan could be ok.

Low range for sure....but based on my calcs, Sienna has lower numerical gearing in "high", particularly when you account for smaller tires and its effective gearing.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Low range for sure....but based on my calcs, Sienna has lower numerical gearing in "high", particularly when you account for smaller tires and its effective gearing.

The problem it seems with a Sienna (or similarly Subarus, whatever) is that a fairly low first gear doesn't necessarily indicate it'll be happy locked in 1st gear and traveling slow without overheating the transmission. It's low enough to get the van moving fully loaded but the design criteria probably doesn't take into account being loaded to GVWR in 1st for any extended time as you might do crawling on unimproved dirt roads, not to even speak of technical crawling situations. Shade has alluded to that elsewhere in the context of expectations. Toyota unlikely expects the Tacoma to live its whole life in 4-low on crap roads to the same extent as a Hilux or Land Cruiser but it certainly must take into account that it is a 4WD truck so GVWR in low range over a lower class of roads is different than a higher GVWR on pavement doing soccer practice or home improvement duty. It would be ideal if OEMs did give detail like that but there's no way to make such a uniform specification so we have to make various assumptions and take certain liberties. I'd have no real qualms about a Tacoma over GVWR if it's positioned low and on pavement, I think it's tough enough to justify some fudge factor. But off road I think GVWR is probably optimistic, at least from a product longevity stand point. I'd think a Sienna would fare even worse trying to drag its GVWR over poor roads.

 

[luthj]

The good news about lots of torque converter slip, is that its just heat. So an external high capacity trans cooler should mitigate the issue significantly.

Obviously an AWD van is not a dedicated 4x4, though there is a surprising amount of overlap in their usable applications.

 

[nickw]

The problem it seems with a Sienna (or similarly Subarus, whatever) is that a fairly low first gear doesn't necessarily indicate it'll be happy locked in 1st gear and traveling slow without overheating the transmission. It's low enough to get the van moving fully loaded but the design criteria probably doesn't take into account being loaded to GVWR in 1st for any extended time as you might do crawling on unimproved dirt roads, not to even speak of technical crawling situations. Shade has alluded to that elsewhere in the context of expectations. Toyota unlikely expects the Tacoma to live its whole life in 4-low on crap roads to the same extent as a Hilux or Land Cruiser but it certainly must take into account that it is a 4WD truck so GVWR in low range over a lower class of roads is different than a higher GVWR on pavement doing soccer practice or home improvement duty.

Fair, my post was a bit tongue in cheek...

 

[DaveInDenver]

Fair, my post was a bit tongue in cheek...

I know, but it is a legitimate argument. Forgetting trips that are intentionally difficult but just getting a trailhead there's plenty of times that we drive my Tacoma over her Forester for the 1% that requires things like clearance or low range. The other 99% of the trip the Subaru would have been just fine (or better, on the highway for sure) but when you hit the limit that's a hard stop.

The good news about lots of torque converter slip, is that its just heat. So an external high capacity trans cooler should mitigate the issue significantly.

Obviously an AWD van is not a dedicated 4x4, though there is a surprising amount of overlap in their usable applications.

Ha, I always forget that most people drive automatics. I'm still in the mindset that exceeding the capability leads to slipping and ultimately burning up your clutch. I think the 1st-low gearing (40:1 crawl ratio) on my Tacoma is too high...