Input Please: 100 Series vs GX470 vs ??

[Climbermac]

I've finally gotten my expo Tundra really built and performing like I have wanted and as one would expect, I can see that I will need to sell it pretty soon...

I have always been a Cruiserhead. Ever since the first time I drove my 60 series, and when I got my first 40 all bets were off. My Tundra build was very much out of need to wheel and get out into the mountains while I took on my frame off on my current 40 series project. Life has changed a lot over the last few years and the Tundra has proven an outstanding platform and there has been less time to finish the 40. Now we have a 16 month old and as we've talked about a second I decided to see how 2 car seats would ride in the access cab......problem.

I've decided to not wait until I HAVE to make a change and start planning how to move forward now. My first instinct is a 100 series. I've wheeled alongside them enough to know how capable they are and the similarities to my Tundra make it an easy move. It has a large aftermarket, excellent options on modifications and its a LandCruiser so it will run forever. I have thought to look around and I've started to look at the GX470 (LC Prado essentially) and I'm very intrigued. The GX is about 2 inches narrower in track width and wheelbase, around 300# lighter with very similar power-train lineups. If the right unit can be found I could even score a KDSS setup. I can easily see that the GX will require more creative solutions in modifications. I do think there will still be far more options than the 1st gen Tundra had but it will be a game of searching.

What am I overlooking? The main thing that I have felt odd about with the GX is the rear door will take some getting used to but there must be more I'm not seeing. Expo brothers and sisters give me your input, is there a platform I am ignoring? I LOVE the build I've created out of my Tundra the only things I would really want different are: clearly a full size back seat and a wheelbase closer to 110". Better fuel economy would always be a plus but who am I kidding, I get as good if not better than most 100's I know, my fully loaded weight is nearly the 100's starting weight.

If any of you are interested, my Tundra build is in my sig line. I guess its for sale too...

 

[chaingangster]

FWIW we have an 03 Tundra access cab with two young children (1-1/2 and 3-1/2) and have had both of their rear facing as well as now their front facing car seats in the truck since they were born. One seat goes on the passenger side and the other goes in the middle. Not ideal, but it's worked for us. My wife has a 100 series, and of course the back seat has much more room for the child seats and its easier to get the kids in and out. For convenient kid carrying its our preferred choice, and its the truck we take out for our weekend explorations. It's tough to carry everything for our camping trips however. As you have probably come to know, a lot of stuff accompanies kids, and our Tundra with its shell has so much more cargo space. Ideally I'd probably get a four door 1st gen Tundra, but our two rigs are paid off and reliable so they're not going anywhere soon.

I guess my point is, just be careful that the vehicles you're considering will carry everything you want/need, especially with all the "gear" that will come along with the kids! Good luck!

 

[mhiscox]

They drive a little differently but both are fine. The 100, to my mind, commands a bit of a price premium for just being a Hundy. The GX is an old design, but the 100 is older--an early 100 is a four-speed with a 235hp engine. The five-speed is a good thing.

The narrowness of the GX is something I like, but the door arrangement is not. Think carefully about how crazy that door will make you on a daily basis. GX aftermarket support is less than for the Hundy. I'm sure lots of people will brag that they got a KDSS with no trouble, but it is a pretty rare option and it seemed to be a total crapshoot as to when or whether one might magically appear in the vicinity.

I'd write more, but this type of thread usually gets a lot of responses from people with much knowledge and opinion.

One last question, though . . . If you like your '03 Tundra, why don't you have a first-generation Sequoia at the top of your list? They drive very nicely and have all the reliability of the other two. Decent 4wd system and the same engine/transmission. They are bigger by fair amount, but that space is really useful and it doesn't make the truck substantially harder to drive, as the width is still narrow.

Anyway, I liked mine at lot and found it a bargain compared to what it would have cost for the same year of 100. Potentially useful thread here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/can-a-sequoia-be-an-off-roader.190333/

 

[Climbermac]

Thanks for the ideas.

@chaingangster, maybe the car-seats that we have are styled in a way that makes it a harder fit but the infant car seat and the convertible that my wife bought for the older one will not fit center and passenger. They will fit on either side, driver and passenger but I'm 6'2" and can't get in the driver seat with it pushed that far forward. I even had to swap to bucket seats from a 60/40 bench for the first kid, this has been in the wind for a while. I did consider the double cab but honestly it is SO long. I wheel with a lot of trucks in the 110" range and I the 18" my access cab (128") is longer in wheelbase gets really troublesome and the 1st gen doublecab (140") is another 12" longer than that... I agree that the bed is a HUGE cavern for gear but it does promote taking way too much gear for me. Even with the little one I try every time we pack for a big trip to take less and less. I find we really don't need near all the gear we bring as overlanders, but it is nice to be comfortable. I try very hard to stick to the ideals living out of a truck as out of a backpack: mutli-purpose items and keeping field service simplicity in mind. If I take something on several trips and still have never used it I take it out of my kit (most medical supplies are clearly not subject to this)

@mhiscox, The Sequoia is something I have flirted with a good bit. I had at one point really considered buying one and swapping parts right over to some extent. My biggest concerns were first that the 1st gen Tundra has very limited aftermarket support but in searching I feel the 1st gen Sequoia has even less. The rear door on the GX does strike me as odd and may be tough to get used to but the full hatch door on the Sequoia is a big detractor for me. Another thing that does stick in my brain on this is that the Sequoia and Tundra have the same 2UZ-FE as the LC but they aren't built in the same place. I love that my truck (despite being an "import") is really made mostly in the US, but I have read of many more engine issues with the US built 2UZ-FE than those built in Japan. The 100 does also has a different tranny and t-case (slightly lower gears I believe) and a stouter driveline. I do like the coil sprung rear over the leaf sprung rear I have, and I will say the Sequoia has a 118" WB which is a bit more respectable but it is quite large, specifically at the rear as the truck is not 10" shorter only the WB. I am still open to considering it's virtues but for the use I will dish out I am not too sure.

Keep it coming!

 

[mhiscox]

Sounds like you're doing a good job with the analysis. One anecdote is not data, but my Big Tree is still going strong at about 210,000 miles. Beyond that, mine is still quite solid and everything on it works. But I'll readily admit that it's not as serious an off-roader as the other two. That said, though, I put mine on DuraTracs and it could go 90% of the places I'd have taken my Hundys.

I like all of the trucks. But when I bought my 2002 Sequoia, after being unwilling to pay what seemed to be indefensibly big bucks for ten-year-old LC100s, I was surprised at how good it was. With only the tire change and a roof rack with gear, it would have done most anything a stock Hundred would do, and the increase in space was frequently valuable. The Tree got a mile or two a gallon better mileage, too, probably as a result of gearing differences.

In any event, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three trucks, unless you're like me and can't abide the GX's side-hinged--and the wrong side for North America, no less--rear door. (I never saw a problem with the Sequoia hatch, and the rear opening tailgate window was trick.) You pretty much need the LX470/LC, though, to buy enough aftermarket stuff to get through the really serious stuff. On the other hand, spend enough more to get a good LX470 or Landcruiser and you may not want to try the really gnarly stuff for fear of picking up expensive-to-fix damage.

Good luck. I suspect you'll be happy with whatever you choose.

 

[Climbermac]

Thanks for the further input Mike.

One thing I have remembered as I've been thinking about the different rigs is a frustration I found on a recent trip with the Tundra. This Tundra is the first automatic I have ever wheeled and it clearly has benefits and drawbacks, as most things do offroad. On mild to moderate trails I have enjoyed it but as things get challenging it gets odd. The biggest frustration came in trying to hold in 2nd on a long sustained climb, 1st is too low and 2 jumps back and forth if the revs change too much for the auto. Does anyone know if the 100 LC or the GX470 have more of a true "auto-stick"? For example, my wife's Volvo XC60 when in manual will hold the gear basically to the point of stalling (I've never tested it all the way to stall, but damn close). An auto like that in a truck would really be the clincher for me, two pedal simplicity but still being able to set/hold a gear not just set the max gear.

 

[Tundraexplorer]

The 100 has a "second start" feature that starts in second gear for snow and ice, but I am unsure if it will keep it I second gear for a long time. I think if you get a 2003+ with the 5 speed you might be able to, but it have a 99. The 2uz in the 100 is more overbuilt then the tundra, there's some threads on mud about it, but it is also tuned very different then a sequoia. The 100 is not as fast off the line and doesn't really give you as much power, where as the sequioa is tuned to the liking of most American drivers who want a faster car. I would go 100 series because of aftermarket and even more reliability, but it's not like the sequioa is known for problems either.

 

[fireball]

Depends how much space you need and what type of wheeling/off roading you want to do. Our 100 is great off road and does everything I'd ever want, but with 2 older kids a newborn and a 100 pound dog we're out of space and are shopping for a trailer! We strongly considered the Sequoia but for us wanted to be able to do some pretty good wheeling and so went with the 100.

The Sequoia has a lot more interior space.....functional roomy 3rd row seats and a good amount of storage behind the 3rd row.

 

[Climbermac]

It really is a tough balance.

We take fairly long trips: 15-20 days are standard so it does bring the livability of the space in the rig up on the list but we do also like to take on some good wheeling. I took the truck up Poughkeepsie Gultch at FJ Summit on this last July and I was headed up Blanca Peak this last weekend until work forced a delay but I will either run up there later this month or next summer. On these type of trails a WB closer to 110" and a smaller overall rig is certainly preferable. I usually joke about 80's and 100's having tons of space let alone my Tundra since i wheeled so long in a 40 but it is worth reminding myself that I wheeled my 40 without kids OR a wife...

The 2nd start sounds interesting but I doubt it locks it into 2nd for very long if at all.

 

[Benc]

I was in the same boat as you about a year ago, I went and looked at and drove every vehicle you have mentioned and ended up with the 100 series. There were several things that made up my mind but the build quality and robustness of the 100 were the main reasons! I have a wife 3 kids and a large dog and just got back from a 3500 mile trip. I do have a small trailer I tow so space was not an issue. One of the biggest thing I didn't like about the GX was also the tail gate! I use the drop down gate on the 100 all the time. So far I am very pleased with my decision! If you haven't yet I would say get out and drive them all and see what feels best.
Good luck!


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[Moody]

I've had two 100 series (LC and LX) and a GX. The GX is a great vehicle. We drove it in Ouray/Telluride Offroad with just the height control and a size larger tire. Very comfortable layout. Rear access is in fact odd, but we lived with it. For me, the LC/LX is the way to go. I recently bought a 2001 with only 111k on the clock for $10k. I also have a 2014 Tundra and I find I am driving the lifted 100 almost every day. Anyhow, I'd say 100 series, preferably with the Lexus badging. You get a few more extras for the same price.

 

[mhiscox]

If you do decide on a Hundred, I strongly recommend one with the five-speed. My 2000 often seemed underpowered to me, whereas my '05 never did. There was a small horsepower increase, but I believe most of it was a result of better gearing. I also picked up a mile or two a gallon.

That said, I don't believe the transmission in the LX/LC will seem much more suitable than the Sequoia's although, as pointed out, there are gearing differences.

BTW, I don't think any pointed out that an 2004-08 GX is pretty different from the 2010-on second (US) generation. Lots of people (me included) don't like the new ones as well--they seem more "built-to-a-price," but I do think that the percentage of them with KDSS is substantially higher.

 

[redthies]

LC/LX>GX any day of the week. The Prados are known as Land Cruiser "Light". Do you love Light beer? Is it drinkable, sure. But is full strength beer better in every way? Yup!!!

Also, I wouldn't get too hung up on the 4spd vs 5spd thing. They are both great. Just get the best maintained rig you can.

 

[Benc]

^^My brother lives in Uganda Africa and he says the same thing! The prados are the the cheep light duty ones over there. He says the 120 series does not hold up to the roads in Africa.


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[MarcFJ60]

I was shopping for a 100 series about 18 months ago. It was fairly tough to find 100 series nearby in my price range/spec (wanted 2003+, preferably 2005+). Whereas GX470s can be found everywhere and they are a fair bit cheaper. So I settled on a nice GX470.

And now I am getting ready to sell it and get a 100 series . . .

There's nothing wrong with the GX. And the 2005+ are very quick for a SUV. But the air suspension and rear door bug me more and more every day. I'd probably feel different if I had been looking for a GX, but I felt like I settled so maybe I am more critical. But after having owned a 60 and an 80 series, I just don't feel like the GX is overbuilt like a LC. I'm starting to wish, if I was going to settle for something other than a 100 series, that I had bought a Sequoia as I could have used that extra room. Although I really don't like Sequoia interior, but they are priced well and have lots of room.

I've driven in my buddy's 2004 LC, and I think it drives nicer than my GX. Not as quick, but plenty of power. I've never driven a KSSS equipped GX. If I had, my opinion may be different as I'm not fond of the way my GX handles - and it has new OEM shocks and properly adjusted height control. But I believe less than 10% of GXs have that package.

For the same price, you can probably get a GX 2-5 years newer than a 100 series and with less miles. You will probably also have more choices available to you. But if you want a 100 series, I don't think the GX will leave you satisfied. But if you want a GX, there's certainly nothing wrong with it beyond what you already know.